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  #41  
Old 01-28-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore


Hi dman

I agree with that naval architect (tell me his name please) to what he says about monohulls, but regarding multihulls I find him a little farfetched.

A good ocean going multihull to be capsized by a wave offers a resistance 2 times bigger than a monohull of the same size, but of course, when capsized it will stay capsized.

Multihulls can be capsized by excessive wind on the sails and because of that they require a lot more experience, good sense and seamanship to be safe at sea, in comparison with a good ocean going monohull.

Of course, as your Architect says: "needless to say most people prefer to be lied to and ignore the risks they are taking. The word offshore means anywhere in the world. The reason we have so many different boats is that there are many different uses. It is where they are used, the term offshore applies. I wouldn’t even classify most cruise ships offshore vessels although they take them there."

But I think this applies as much to multihulls as to monohulls. An ocean going monohull, if capsized will right itself up in less than a minute, but I have to say that the vast majority that are out there doing passages will not do that. Yes, most of them will right themselves up, but they will take between 3 and 5 minutes, and that will be too much for the ones that are not inside the boat.

What should be important is that every buyer should have full information on the stability and safety characteristics of the boat they are interested in and the fact is that they don''t.

Ocean going boats are very expensive boats, so, like that Architect says, "people prefer to be lied" and buy that beautiful boat with nice interiors instead of buying by the same money a 15 year old ocean going boat and there is nothing wrong with that except if they intend to use that "nice boat" as a bluewater boat.

For the ones that think I am crazy, let me tell you what the RYA (Royal Yacht Association, probably the oldest and one of the most respected names in Yachting) is concerned with the matter:

"Just as it is mandatory for the fuel consumption of all new cars to be published so the RYA believes that stability information should also be available to a buyer of a boat."

Although you might think that I don’t like multihulls, I have to say that one of the boats that I have visited in the Dusseldorf boat show was the Dragonfly (a fast trimaran) and I have even talked with the (very enthusiastic) guys of the shipyard about a sail trial (perhaps in spring) on the Dragonfly 1200.

I guess that if I could, I would be very tempted to have one.
The boat can point to the wind like a monohull and it is twice faster. She has the interior space of a 32ft (and I can live with that) but because she can do passages in half the time, she only needs half the carrying capacity.

Azores in three or four days, an Atlantic passage in a week or so, would expand a lot my cruising grounds and I would love that, not to mention the fun.

I believe that sailed with good sense, it is a safe boat, at least enough for me, and I take safety very seriously.

The only thing I really don’t like in that boat is the price. It costs 350 000 euros, without taxes and options. I guess that the final price will be around 500 000 Euros, and I can not afford that...but that boat makes me wonder...

Take a look at the site and see the panoramic view.

http://www.dragonfly.dk/


Paulo

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  #42  
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Paulo check out his website macnaughtongroup.com Really great guy that has time to help sailors.
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  #43  
Old 01-28-2005
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Dman, it looks like you like classical boats.

Take a look at this one (and see the movie).

http://www.marieholm.nl/uk/zeiljacht1.html

I can assure you that in reality it is even nicer.

well I am a strange guy, I like this one as much as I like the Dragonfly, of course, for completely different reasons. LOL

The AVS of this one is 180º, LOL, and you can not imagine how cosy and beatiful her interior is.

Paulo
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  #44  
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Paulo,Now that`s what I`m talking about.Very nice boat,a functional piece of art.Pride in craftsmanship everywhere.In my opinion a great boat to paint should also be a great boat to sail.I grew up around ocean going vessels that looked odd to inland guys but they just have the look that reminds me of saltwater.Even an old tug does it for me.When it comes to water it is all cruise for me,just being out there and enjoying nature.Like the old ketches too ,more strings to play with.Sailing is my meditation,got to sign out here getting too pumped up with my rambling on.
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  #45  
Old 02-03-2005
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Everything is a tradeoff when it comes to choosing a boat - there is no right or wrong.

multihull float, monohulls sink. personally id prefer to be with an upturned cat then a monohull at the bottom of the ocean.

the other thing noone has touched on here is speed, meaning less time spent at sea. You can give me the safest monohull in the world and its extra stability is not going to make up for the fact that it will probably be out on the ocean for up to 30% longer. check out the timings for the latest ARC and youll notice a cruising outremer up there with the racing monohulls.

Speed also gives you more options when trying to avoid rough weather. Another important safety feature imho.

i also feel a lot better being able to live a normal life on a cat then spending my life at 30 degrees. Leaves the crew in a much better state when its needed.

yeah you can overload a cat and this can be dangerous. You need to buy the boat to fit your payload.

This sums it up for me. classic video:

http://www.gunboat.info/video/safari.html
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  #46  
Old 02-04-2005
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Gunboat 62...I love that boat.

Carbon/Kevlar, exclusive( 3 or 4 built ), fast and save.

For the ones that want to know more about that boat you can read a test in the February 2005 edition of "Yachting World".

They don''t publish the price, but you can rent one in the US (max 6 people) for $16.500 a week (that gives you an idea).

They say also that all the boats sold are crewed by professionals.

In the Gunboat site they define the boat as:
“Unrelated to charter yachts and floating condominiums, she is a pure catamaran spirit, designed and built for demanding sailors who expect nothing but the best"

It seems that they don''t like the type of catamarans widely used in charter, the ones they call floating condos.

I don''t like them either (I call them Fatcats and in my opinion they are not very good sailing boats) but I am very interested in one of the Gunboat new projects, a Gunboat 37, even if it will probably be too expensive.

Paulo
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2005
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Gary, I hope this is more like what you want to hear. We''ve had a Gemini 3000 for four years and absolutely love it! It is wonderful to cruise on, comfortable, roomy and reasonably fast. We''ve been to the Bahamas, around The Keys and up the west coast of Florida. I can''t answer the "some offshore abilities" question, I don''t have enough experience. I do know of a 3000 that''s gone from The Keys to Beleze safely. I''ll finish with a quote from the multihulls group by Chuck Kanter:
"So far in my career I have surveyed well over 100 Gemini. Some so old they do not have hard tops, some so new they have not yet lost that "new boat" smell. I have seen owners abuse them in the most outrageous manor. I have seen them so loaded with equipment and gear they have practically no underdeck clearance. I have seen them with the watertight compartments filled to the brim because the forth, fifth or sixth owner had not a clue they were even there! I have been called on divorce cases, sinkings, strandings, collisions, repossessions, insurance surveys, etc. What I would like to add to this thread is the remarkable strength I have found in the boats. Yes, from time to time I sure find quality control issues. Yes, the finish is not up to fancy standards. Would I "recommend" this boat for an Atlantic crossing? NO!
Would I sail one across myself? IN A HEARTBEAT!"

Tom
PS I always get a chuckle out of the "monohulls are safer offshore because they can recover from a 100 something degree knockdown and right themselves." Yeah, if completely prepared, no open companion way, haches, vents, lockers.
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  #48  
Old 02-20-2005
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Thanks, Tom, for the Gemini report. This re-enforces positive opinions I have encountered regarding Gemini build quality. Now all I need to do is wangle a ride.
On another note: do you sail with a dog? and have you taught the dog to relieve itself while aboard?
Thanks, Gary
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Old 02-20-2005
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2 labs actually and no they don''t like going on board. We''ve only done one long trip with them along. We went up the west coast of Florida. With boards and rudders up the Gemini will motor in 2 feet of water so we''d just find a beach and give the dogs a break.
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Hi Guy''s.
Got to get in on this.
Ex RN, tought and raced dingies from childhood.
Last boat ( always had something) Trident 24,drop keel. Built in 50''s, same age as me.
First owner sailed to South Africa, I bought here in Abu Dhabi in 87 and took here to Turkey. A brillant boat,she was capable of anything.
But, the other half liked being on her,liked when we got to the destination, cotpit table up, cheese & bickies,wine and Dire Straights.
Me, just love sailing, 30 plus degrees,foot on opposite cotpit seat pure bliss.

So we spent 3 years building a cat.
Then contract ended , cat in one country, us allong way away, in another.

Now back on line after a few difficult years luve to spend half an hour now and again searching Heavenly Twins and reading about happy owners.
Got to get me one
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