Fiberglass lifetime URGENT

[Grigrigrigoris]

Here is my 1 million dollar question: what is the expected lifetime of a good quality European sailing boat (for example Moody, Hallberg Rassy, Najad) built in 1991, sailed in north Europe until now and about to be moved to the Mediterranean sea (like Florida, strong sun, a lot of UV light)? Any help would be wellcome!

regards

Grigoris

[Jeff_H]

There is no such thing as a universally accurate lifespan for boats like that. The lifespan of most boats is economic and abuse driven. Boats like the ones that you mentio, like any other boat of lesser quality, will need some long term maintenance items. Components like refrigeration, standing and running rigging, deck hardware, electronics,plumbing and electrical systems, upholstery, sails, engines and the like, all have finite life spans. On a quality boat these may be extended some, but on a boat from the early 1990''s you could expect to have many of these items pretty much at the end of their useful lifespan. The worst problem with the boats on your list is their teak decks. Unless well cared for and used for short sailing seasons, the teak decks that are so popular could be near the end of their lifespan. That is a major cost to deal with and if the deck fails it could lead to damage to the deck coring which if bad enough is pretty much the death nell for a boat, at least in my opinion.

Other than that the hulls of these boats should last 40-60 years assuming that you don''t hit have a serious accident.

Jeff

[Grigrigrigoris]

Jeff thanks for your answer. I was actually hoping that you would get involved in the discussion. Although I was more interested in the lifespan of the fiber glass of the hull you also made some very useful comments regarding the lifespan of the components of a sailing boat. I would assume that the lifetime of the various components of the subsystems depends on the natural aging process and on how often the boat was used during the previous years.The natural aging depends on the exposure to light or strong winds, lake or sea water, mediterranean or north European weather conditions and component quality.

Can I assume that the sails, deck hardwear (not including the teak stuff), standing rigging, properly maintained motor, electrical wiring and marine electronics of a sailing boat lightly used for three years in the sea and then lightly used for seven years in a lake in North Europe under light winds would last another ten years (real use of two months per year) in the Mediterranean sea under mixed wind conditions? This question is bugging me because I am considering of buying such a boat. Of course I will have it inspected by a professional marine surveyor but all what the surveyor is going to see is the condition of the boat now.

regards

Grigoris

[kimberlt]

I wouldn''t trust standing rigging over 10 years old.
The rest of the stuff would have to be inspected on a case by case basis to determine its future useful life. For example It only takes a few days to ruin a good suit of sails.i think generalities in this case would be an error,
fair winds,
eric

[windship]

eric,
What if upon your inspection, the standing rigging is found to be old but in perfect shape?

Dennis

[Irwin32]

Life span of the standing rigging on a freshwater boat is a good topic for debate. A couple of years ago I took my back stay into a rigger on Lake Michigan with the idea replacing it since it was 25 years old. He looked at me like I was crazy. He said it looked great and there was no reason to replace it. I am up to 30 years old and still have only replaced my front stay. On the freshwater lake I have never heard of anyone replacing standing rigging just because it was old. Salt water, is of course, an entirely different matter.

[Jeff_H]

One overlooked issue with older rigging is fatique of the terminals. Over time there are small amounts of elongation and deformation that takes place in the swages. Work hardened SS is very prone to fatigue and the very process of making a swage work hardens the metal. Over time that combination of work hardening and deformation cycles can result in a rigging failure whether salt water is present or not.

Additionally the north central states have more acid rain than many, if not most, areas of the country, and I have seen it claimed that acid rain makes a more effective electrolyte for crevice corrosion than salt. I would think that the saving grace for rigging on mid-western boats, even more than the fresh water, is the short sailing season which minimizes opportunities for load cycle fatigue.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[c25]

I can offer two observations with respect to rigging and fresh water boats...

1) I purchased a 1969 Cal 25 in Chicago last fall. It was a fresh water boat it''s entire life & has the original rigging from ''69 that hasn''t failed.

2) All that being said...Before it goes into the water this spring it''s getting a complete set of new standing rigging. :-) ...but it did last the initial 35 years...who knows how much longer it would have lasted?

If you look really close(hard to see even with a good magnifying glass) at the terminal compression fittings you can see ever-so-slight lines in the metal. I''m assuming they are very fine cracks. I can see no visible signs of corrosion, although inside the fitting is anyone''s guess. Given the potential results if any of them fail...I consider the new rigging to be a cheap investment in avoiding any issues. Granted the standing rigging on a 25 footer is fairly minor compared to that of a 35+ footer.

[Jeff_H]

I would not think that in 20 years of exposure to normal conditions the fiberglass hull and deck would ''wear out'' but there may be individual areas of the hull and deck structure that will need some attention over time.

For example, I own a 21 year old boat that frankly has had a very hard life. She was well engineered to begin with but there are places where the bulkhead tabbing needs to be redone, and places where I am starting to see minor crazing in the deck. There has been some water in the rudder that we have drained and repaired. Eventually, I would like to reskin the rudder and rework the seal at the rudder post to decrease the likelihood of water getting back in there. In other words, the basic glass structure of the boat is largely intact but there are certainly areas of the boat that will need attention and upgrading as the result of 21 years of hard use.

On the other hand, the Carribbean and to some, but much lesser extent the Med, are pretty hard environments for a boat. Boats are sailed year round and in the southern Carribean typically sailed in some pretty high winds. I have heard estimates that sugest that annually a boat gets the equivillient somewhere around 5 years of aging in the Carribean when compared to use in more northern climates with their short seasons, lower UV and better maintenance cycles. Much more if they are in the charter trades.

In any event, if you are essentially talking about buying a well built 10 year old boat that you expect to keep for another 10 years, I would suspect that barring some fluke, you should expect to have some amount of prolonged long term maintenance (major engine rebuild or replacement, new sails and electronics and so on) but there should still be a sound hull and deck(unless the boat has teak decks in which case all bets are off).

Jeff

[Grigrigrigoris]

Dear sailnet members,

Thank you for your suggestions

Grigoris