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  #21  
Old 07-04-2001
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jinga is on a distinguished road
Cruising on Multihulls

Hey Jack,

Many thanks for the comments - & I guess that we will prevail - our other option was to look to selling this boat & buying / building another - but I suspect that we would just be facing the same problems albeit in a bigger boat !!

So, better to bite the bullet & spend the money to get it right - than drop money on a sale & then have to get it right again.

The boat is really great - just sails like a dog.

Now we have done our calculations (via a Naval Architect) we believe that we will be up there with the Cruiser / Racer cats, and that rather than have 15 tonnes on 47.5 feet - we will have 15 tonne on 53 feet.Much more acceptable!! The extension weight will be negiligible (cored Kevlar).

Anyway - will keep you posted - thanks for the interest.

Rodger
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  #22  
Old 07-07-2001
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hervel is on a distinguished road
Cruising on Multihulls

hi Jinga:

I just bought a lagoon 410 myself and I would be interested in knowing how your boat got from 10.5 to 15 tonnes. The genset and watermaker should only amount to a few 100''s kilos...so i can see 11t...where do the other 4 t come from?
i just sailed a similar cat in the Grenadines las week, she was fully equipped ( genset, watermaker, icemaker !!!, microwave etc...) but we were only 2 adults on board and managed to get her to 12kts on several occassions with 1 reef in the main and full jib with winds at 20-25kts...not a Catana but not bad.
Also how did the cost of the modification compared to selling your existing boat and buying a 55ft with the same amenities ???

thanks

herve
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2001
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jinga is on a distinguished road
Cruising on Multihulls

Hi hervel,

We''re not sure how she came to be so heavy either - the weight measurement came from the scales attached to the crane & could be upto 10% out. We believed her to be about 13.5t & that would be consistent with a 10% error.

Still heavy though.

I guess that she was ostensibly fitted out for very comfortable cruising & has the following :

Fisher Panda Generator, Watermaker, Diesel Heater, Washing Machine, 4 x Lifeline 285ah batteries (bloody big), 500 ltr water & 400 ltr fuel.

We figure that the modifications to bring her into Australian Charter standards added probably .5t (1,100 ltr/min bilge / firefighting pump & 2" Stainless Steel plumbing from this pump to each compartment).

Anyway - she is still heavy for any type of sailing in breezes under 15 kts !

In respect to the possiblity of selling her & buying / building a larger boat as opposed to the modifications - there are several reasons for our course of action :

1. We did look very closely at a Lagoon 55 - but our reseach showed that we would probably end up with a similar problem - ie a boat loaded up to cruise & marginal sailing performance.

2. The physical size daunted us a little & while I would be comfortable with something like the Lagoon 55 - the practicalities of a 55'' x 28'' boat anywhere in our area is a costly exercise in terms of mooring and slipping. We just squeeze in as we are (beam wise at 26'')

3. The boat we have is "new" - and has everything we wanted for comfortable cruising (including Satphone). While she was launched in Oct 98 - she had done very little sailing & the engines only had 100 hrs on them when we bought her. So, to sell her & look to something a little larger would mean looking to an older boat.

4. To sell the boat here in Aus means accepting payment in "Pacific Pesos" & then having to shell out $US for something else - so it meant a changeover of perhaps $US 100k by the time we paid duties, taxes etc.

5. In reality, we don''t really want a "bigger" boat - but one that sails faster. The only way to achieve this was to either take out weight or increase the waterline length. Obviously, we have chosen the later. The accommodations we have are great & I think that for 2 people, with the odd visitors - our boat is on the larger end of the scale - but is very comfortable.

6. The modifications we are doing include the following : extending the bows by 750mm, extending the stern by 1500mm and reshaping the aft sections a little to encnce the waterflow, extending the rig by 2000m, adding a panel to the main and installing a larger (60sqm) overlapping jib on the furler. Additionally, we are re-distributing the loading - as the gen, watermaker, diesel heater, holding tank & 300 ltr watertank are all on the port side - with the watertank being located in the extremes of the bow. On the starboard side is a 200 ltr tank & the waterheater (60 ltr) !! - so we are going to shut off the 300 ltr tank & keep it for "in port" & locate a 300 ltr tank on the starboard side.

The total cost for all of this is $US 25,000.00 (quoted)- Including Naval Architect fees.

So, hopefully, with the above, we should get to an acceptable sailing ability - even with keels !! - If the truth be known - I''m not sure that I could go through the selling / buying process for quite some time !!

Just out of interest - I will post some pics when I can.

Thanks for the interest hervel & will keep you posted. Sorry about the long diatribe - but its a decision that we have agonised over for some time now.

Cheers
Rodger
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2001
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whitelight is on a distinguished road
Cruising on Multihulls

Suggest that you obtain the book by Charles Kanter "Cruising on More than One Hull" (Sailco Press, Box 2099, Key Largo FL 33037, 305-743-0626 sailcopres@aol.com) After owning & sailing four monomarans over the course of 15 years, we bought a 1983 Prout 37'' Snowgoose last year. For many reasons, this was our choice for an offshore cruising adventure. All sailing boats have their nasty habits, as well as their good ones, else you wouldn''t have people out buying boats & cruising.
Speed is in the eye of the beholder- what was a white knuckle 8 knot experience on our Tartan 44 is a leasurely sail on the Snowgoose. Sailng to windward?? Our 2 C & C''s and the two Tartans that we owned could pinch to 25 apparent (our Tartan 30 was a real sleeper in the club races-she could out point every boat execpt a Dash 34) The Snowgoose can go to about 30 apparent above 7 knots true, better performance when we crack off to 35-40. A friend used to own a Morgan Out Island 41 which couldn''t even handle point to 45 apparent. Much of a boat''s windward ability also depends on seamanship, condition of sails, sheeting angle, etc. (Buddy Melges once won a race in a Westsail 32!)
We''ve found that the Snowgoose handles quite well in the light airs that we have in the Pacific NW - 3-4 knots in 5-6 knots of breeze. Trucks smartly along when the wind pipes up as well.
Downwind is where the cat shines-NO DEATH ROLL! Our Prout moves like she''s on railroad tracks when downwind. I have yet to be on any monohull of any size or displacement that doesn''t have a downwind roll (I think this is where rolling down the trades originated!)
Yes, all boats make noise & have movement-after all, we''re travelling in a very fluid, changeable environment. Multis do have a quicker motion, which usually means that objects don''t have time to develop momentum & fly around the cabin. In short steep chop, there is noise on the bridgedeck; however, in similar situations the mono will also be "noisy" as it plows into a wave & falls off of one. One of the worst & noisiest rides that we ever had was off the Oregon coast on a Tayana 37-she''d dig in a wave, free herself from it, rise above the surf, then slam down with a resounding BOOM! which went on for about 5 hours.
Payload is another consideration-the Prout is built to have a greater payload than some of her sexier French cousins, albeit not a great as a monomaran. Over the years, I''ve found that we tend to be packrats, so we prefer to travel light anyway-less hassle & less things to look after. Besides, when criusing, who wears that much anyway? Food is available all places that we may go and fresh is better. We have more than enough storage for a 3-4 week ocean passage-we tend to stay away from canned goods, opting for dried beans, lentils, rice, etc. that can be cooked on the go-also less problem with trash disposal of cans. A light weight water maker supplements the water tanks, which are located low in each mini keel and hold about 50 gal each.
When loading the cat, sensible weight distribution is a must. It is important to keep the heavy weight low and out of the ends. This is also true for the faster monos-we had to be very weight conscious on our Tartan 44 to keep the weight out of the bow & stern-any heavy weight in these areas effected the trim & sailing performance.
We all have our personal preferences and opinions-if your dream is to cruise in a cat, then don''t compromise-go for it! With some reasearch and looking, you will be able to find the right boat to meet your cruising requirements and your budget.
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  #25  
Old 07-28-2001
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jeffsailorman is on a distinguished road
Cruising on Multihulls

I have cruised the Priv 39 good boat well built and good load carring. Doesn''t point as well as a good Mono but then again you can''t have every thing. There are some good deals out there. If you are really budget minded look at some of the deals on Tri''s.
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