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genesis-uno 01-09-2006 10:26 AM

Amel vs others
 
We are planning in buying an Amel 45 for the structure, safety and the electric furling ( main and Genoa) for short hand sailing .Can somebody tell me which other yacht has this items as standard.
Thanks in advance

Jeff_H 01-09-2006 11:06 AM

Amel vs others
 
Personally there is no way in hell that I would buy a boat that used electric furling for shorthanded offshore use, especially when taking about an electric in-mast mainsail furling system.

There was a prior discussion on these systems, but from discussing in-mast furling with knowledgeable delivery skippers each had a tale of one of these systems failing in serious conditions. Its one thing for an in-mast furler to fail when there is a good sized experienced crew aboard who can wrestle with the problem, but it is entirely another problem when you are shorthanded.

To me, a company that truly cared about safety would not depend on an electic furling system as its standard equipment. It would offer a more reliable set-up as standard and offer the furlers as an option for those that were planning to sail with larger crews and in protected conditions.

Jeff

kimberlite 01-09-2006 05:41 PM

Amel vs others
 
I now have over 19,000 miles on my amel.
i have had no problems with the in mast furling.

i can understand how a delivery captain can have problems with the system as they are unfamiliar with it. i have seen crew who are unfamiliar with the system almost cause the sail to bunch up insude the mast by furling in one direction then the other without having the sail all the way out.

if you know what you are doing , you will have no problems. if you do there is a manual override.
fair winds
eric
amel sm #376

WHOOSH 01-10-2006 03:39 AM

Amel vs others
 
Genesis, let me try to fair a curve between Jeff''s and Eric''s replies - which at first blush might appear to be world''s apart.

There are a huge variety of furling systems out there, which means delivery skippers - and owners - are going to have a wide variety of experiences with them. Add an electric motor and one increases the potential for a bad furl to be even more difficult to back out of, to break something, or for a motor to seize. It''s also fair to say that many of the problems experienced with mainsail furling are at least in part crew-induced. So...if you start with a weak system (e.g. only a bottom swivel, or a sail not properly designed for the system and the spar, or a misalignment, or a system not properly serviced), it will take even less of a mistake by the crew to end up in trouble.

As with many other of its systems, Amel''s approach is to engineer the furling systems on the boat so that problems are less likely. As Eric points out, they also incorporate manual furling altho'' this is partly a false lead as a manual override won''t necessarily bail you out of a bad wrap problem; instead, it''s presence is to make sailing the boat possible when a motor fails. Eric obviously has learned to use his systems properly and he gets good results. (I should add that an impression I have from Eric''s other posts is that he''s very diligent about maintaining his boat, a point that shouldn''t be overlooked when he describes his furling systems as being reliable).

I think the boat you''re looking at is an Amel 46 (not 45). I''ve talked with multiple crews who sail this model offshore and in general they like the boat a lot. Most of them have had some difficulties with their furling systems at one time or another, both because of mechanical failures and because of inexperience when reefing at sea. There''s simply no free lunch (even on boats Mr. Amel builds) and a more complex system is going to require more knowledge on your part, routine inspection and proper adjustment & service when called for, and proper use of the system at sea. In exchange for this, you get ease of use when everything works well.

Jack

kimberlite 01-10-2006 04:04 PM

Amel vs others
 
the Amel is built with industrial Grade components , and marine grade if they can''t find industrial components.
the furling system on the amel uses a industrial gearbox and a large bosch motor.
there is no maintenance required except changing the brushes in the motor. Mine, after 19,000 miles) is like new. My friend who has crossed the atlantic circumnavigated most of south america and cape horn(in a factory stock amel) took apart his motors and found about 1/8 of the brushes were worn. no other work done on his boat.
the amel furling system is bulletproof but not idiotproof.
fair winds,
eric

Jeff_H 01-10-2006 04:44 PM

Amel vs others
 
I understand that the motor in question is a Mercedes starter motor and I understand that if you look at the part number and go back to the Bosch website you will find that it is not really intended for continuous service. Maybe industrial, but necessary bulletproof.

Jeff

kimberlite 01-10-2006 06:00 PM

Amel vs others
 
jeff,
what is the part number?
fair winds,
eric

Jeff_H 01-11-2006 02:26 AM

Amel vs others
 
Hi Eric,

My reponse came from an earlier discussion of this system. In that discussion, the part number and a link to the Bosch page was provided. I figured that since you have one of these boats you should be able to pull the model number off of the boat either from Amel''s famous Owner''s Manual or else from drive motor''s I.D. plate. If you find out otherwise I would like to know because this has stuck in my mind since that original post.

Fair winds to you as well.
Jeff

genesis-uno 01-11-2006 03:46 AM

Amel vs others
 
Jeff, thanks very much for your opinion. The reason that I have choose to have a boat with electric furling is only from past experience. I sail for the last 20 years in south America where weather condition changes from 5 knots winds to 55 knots, always short handed, that means my wife and I.
I had no problem with my 30 feet Plenamar reefing manually in any weather condition.
For the last 12 month I have been sailing a 47 feet Beneteau that a friend bought and being every thing by hand, there is no way that me and my wife could handle it, even in good weather conditions.
I have been on board of an Amel and seen how it handles, and it is a beauty. That is the reason of my simple question, by the way...no one have answered my question.
The idea is to sell the present one an buy the next boat in the Mediterrano ( France, Greece or Croatia), and start sailing from there, for how long…. Who knows….
Thanks every one

genesis-uno 01-11-2006 03:59 AM

Amel vs others
 
Eric, Thanks for your info...I''m looking for an Amel 46''do you happened to know of one in the market that is worth looking at? the idea is when we finish sailing in Europe or who knows where is to finish back in Chile, were we are now.
regards


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