Advice For Good Boat To Learn On - SailNet Community
 55Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 75 Old 06-02-2014 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Far upstate NY!!
Posts: 219
Thanks: 349
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Good morning,
I sailed in my teens with a friend who did most of the work, although I do remember a bit. That was 35 years ago! I want to sail again now that my kids are all either grown or in college. I have a friend who will teach my husband and I but we have two issues: none of the lakes around here rent sailboats, and my husband is 6'7" - we took a lesson a few years ago, and the guy put us the two of us alone in a 14 foot boat while he followed. Before we got out of the little bay, we capsized. Once in the lake, the boom hit my husband in the head because he couldn't get under it fast enough and we capsized again in the middle of Lake George. Needless to say, we want someone different to teach us.

We are willing to buy a practical boat to learn on, as I know I, at last, will love it! I'm reading about 22 foot boats, thinking they might be big enough that he can get under the boom when coming about, and still small enough to learn on. We will be sailing mostly in Schroon Lake, a 9 mile long lake here. I don't know if we will be sailing in Lake George much the first few years - it's a big, deep lake and weather whips the lake up there very fast and very scarily. (Ask me how I know. It involves squalls and a 20 foot SeaRay. no, we didnt capsize, it was just scary.) If we overnight, it would be at an island with campsites, so we don't need to sleep on it. I'm liking the J22, there are a lot of them on Lake George, and they sound fun, but we want something easy to sal and VERY HARD to capsize!! That is our number one priority. We both are good swimmers, we aren't afraid of the water, but I'm assuming if a 22 foot boat doesn't right itself, you can't stand n the hull and right it, like the instructor had us do with the 14 foot boat, so we'd prefer to stay upright.

Oh, and we need under 5k. He's a good carpenter and mechanic, and also furniture restorer, so we don't mind work to make it glow. Just needs to be sound. We just found an ODay 22 for $400, it's in good shape, the guy just bought another boat and has to sell it yesterday. But it has no trailer or small hp motor. (We have a couple of small motors around.) thanks!

Thank you for any suggestions,
Nancy
Švejk likes this.

Last edited by Nancyleeny; 06-02-2014 at 08:29 AM.
Nancyleeny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 75 Old 06-02-2014
Member
 
JimMcGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Barnegat Bay, NJ
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 61
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Nancy,
First welcome to SailNet!

A 22 footer is a great size to learn on. With a swing or fixed keel she'll have enough weight that you won't have to worry about capsizing in any conditions where you'd want to be out sailing. These boats are designed to "round up", which means they turn up into the wind if they become over powered by a strong gust.

In your size and price range condition trumps brand. A well loved boat will need less work to get going and less maintenance to keep her going.

Systems are simple on these boats. Check the condition of the outboard. Does it start easily and run smoothly? Your husband's a big guy. When he walks on the deck does it feel spongy? Do you hear any cracking sounds? Either would indicate a water damage inside the deck. Are there any obvious repairs or cracks in the hull? Look at the lines. Are they frayed or showing signs of dry rot? If so they'll need to be replaced. Look at the sails. They should be reasonably stiff not soft and baggy - though you can sail a year or two with baggy worn out sails while you're learning - you just won't sail as fast.

J22's are great little racing boats but there are two things that may be an issue with your husbands size. The boom is lower on the J22 than an O'Day or Catalina 22's (two other common boats this size). The other is the location of the traveler - the line that controls the boom. On the J22 it's in the cockpit where it's closer to hand when racing but where you'll bang your shins. On the O'Day and the Catalina it's at the back of the cockpit where it's out of the way which is better for relaxed sailing.

Finally if you're going to be towing make sure your tow vehicle can handle the weight of the boat.

Best of luck,
Jim

95 Catalina 30 Island Time

The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau
JimMcGee is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 75 Old 06-02-2014 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Far upstate NY!!
Posts: 219
Thanks: 349
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Nancy,
First welcome to SailNet!

A 22 footer is a great size to learn on. With a swing or fixed keel she'll have enough weight that you won't have to worry about capsizing in any conditions where you'd want to be out sailing. These boats are designed to "round up", which means they turn up into the wind if they become over powered by a strong gust.

In your size and price range condition trumps brand. A well loved boat will need less work to get going and less maintenance to keep her going.

Systems are simple on these boats. Check the condition of the outboard. Does it start easily and run smoothly? Your husband's a big guy. When he walks on the deck does it feel spongy? Do you hear any cracking sounds? Either would indicate a water damage inside the deck. Are there any obvious repairs or cracks in the hull? Look at the lines. Are they frayed or showing signs of dry rot? If so they'll need to be replaced. Look at the sails. They should be reasonably stiff not soft and baggy - though you can sail a year or two with baggy worn out sails while you're learning - you just won't sail as fast.

J22's are great little racing boats but there are two things that may be an issue with your husbands size. The boom is lower on the J22 than an O'Day or Catalina 22's (two other common boats this size). The other is the location of the traveler - the line that controls the boom. On the J22 it's in the cockpit where it's closer to hand when racing but where you'll bang your shins. On the O'Day and the Catalina it's at the back of the cockpit where it's out of the way which is better for relaxed sailing.

Finally if you're going to be towing make sure your tow vehicle can handle the weight of the boat.

Best of luck,
Jim
Wow!! So much great advice! Thank you, Jim. So I am thinking the boat in the water gently used is better than the one that has been sitting on the land for the last ten years? Or it just depends??

So much to learn - which makes this such a fascinating endeavor!! Your generous help is greatly appreciated!
Nancy
Nancyleeny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 75 Old 06-02-2014
Dragon Mod
 
DRFerron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,705
Thanks: 110
Thanked 209 Times in 191 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancyleeny View Post
Wow!! So much great advice! Thank you, Jim. So I am thinking the boat in the water gently used is better than the one that has been sitting on the land for the last ten years? Or it just depends??

So much to learn - which makes this such a fascinating endeavor!! Your generous help is greatly appreciated!
Nancy
Nancy, Welcome to SailNet.

At least you know the boat in the water floats. But it really depends. When I bought my first boat to learn on, it sat on its trailer. I had an experienced sailor crawl through it and at least guess if it would float (I only had the seller's word). It didn't cost a lot. It had three sets of sails. I wanted to learn how to fix stuff as well as how to sail so it was the perfect balance of needing work yet still could be sailed as is.

All of what Jim said but beyond that, don't over think it at this stage (while still being safe, of course).

Donna


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catalina 30 TRBS
DRFerron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 75 Old 06-02-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 829
Thanks: 11
Thanked 36 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Nancy,

Your plan is excellent. A 22 ft boat is an ideal learning platform, and lots of fun as well. Our first boat was a 22 ft Pearson. It simple, fun to sail, and taught us a lot. More fun per dollar than any boat we've owned afterwards.

If you can find a mooring or a dock so you can leave it in the water during the season, I'd recommend that over trailering. You'll use it more with less time getting ready to sail, and putting it away. If you need to trailer, don't let that stop you.

Enjoy the shopping around, talk with everyone, but whatever you do go get a boat and go sailing!
JimMcGee and AlaskaMC like this.
capecodda is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 75 Old 06-02-2014
Dragon Mod
 
DRFerron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,705
Thanks: 110
Thanked 209 Times in 191 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodda View Post
...

If you can find a mooring or a dock so you can leave it in the water during the season, I'd recommend that over trailering. You'll use it more with less time getting ready to sail, and putting it away. If you need to trailer, don't let that stop you...
I agree with this. We kept our 22 foot sailboat in a slip. I hated trailering. During the winter, as long as there was no work to do on it, we kept it at the marina on the trailer.
JimMcGee and AlaskaMC like this.

Donna


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catalina 30 TRBS
DRFerron is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 75 Old 06-02-2014 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Far upstate NY!!
Posts: 219
Thanks: 349
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodda View Post
Nancy,

Your plan is excellent. A 22 ft boat is an ideal learning platform, and lots of fun as well. Our first boat was a 22 ft Pearson. It simple, fun to sail, and taught us a lot. More fun per dollar than any boat we've owned afterwards.

If you can find a mooring or a dock so you can leave it in the water during the season, I'd recommend that over trailering. You'll use it more with less time getting ready to sail, and putting it away. If you need to trailer, don't let that stop you.

Enjoy the shopping around, talk with everyone, but whatever you do go get a boat and go sailing!
Yes, we trailered our 20 foot SeaRay for the first few years we had it, and I hated it!! It was always a bit nerve-wracking for me. We have a Silverado 1500, so I think our pickup can handle the boat, but still...I would rather leave it in the water so we can just go!

One other questions - can a 22 foot boat be sailed by a single novice sailor? It would be in a pretty protected lake, only in excellent weather. I am not going to win "Adventurous Sailor of the Week" award in this lifetime, but I want to make sure that if I am alone, I can still go sailing. Thanks!!
Nancyleeny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 75 Old 06-02-2014
Tartan 27' owner
 
CalebD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,758
Thanks: 5
Thanked 107 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Great responses from some great members here Nancy.

The "J" class boats (22' & 24') are real racing boats which are fast to sail but are light weight and can capsize.
J24 Blog » Another J24 Sinks
I think of these little racers as more advanced boats that are not so great for beginners to learn on. Having said that, I'd recommend you try to get a ride on someone's J22' on your lake as they are fun to sail but maybe without the tall man.
The Pearson Ensign (22') strikes me as a nearly perfect boat for you and your guy (not that other designs would not fit your needs). The Ensign is heavy for its size and nearly impossible to capsize much less sink and can be sailed by expert & novice alike. Another nice feature of the Ensign is the huge cockpit which can seat up to 6 adults. They are also fairly easy to trailer.
Your choices will probably be limited mostly by what is nearby but the farther afield you look the more options you will find. I know of at least one Ensign for sale in Nyack; not right around the corner but at least in the same state.
ENSIGN (PEARSON) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Ensigns are still raced competitively if you get bitten by that bug.

Good luck finding a new instructor and a "new" old boat.
Nancyleeny likes this.

"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CalebD is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 75 Old 06-02-2014 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Far upstate NY!!
Posts: 219
Thanks: 349
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Great responses from some great members here Nancy.

The "J" class boats (22' & 24') are real racing boats which are fast to sail but are light weight and can capsize.

I think of these little racers as more advanced boats that are not so great for beginners to learn on. Having said that, I'd recommend you try to get a ride on someone's J22' on your lake as they are fun to sail but maybe without the tall man.
The Pearson Ensign (22') strikes me as a nearly perfect boat for you and your guy (not that other designs would not fit your needs). The Ensign is heavy for its size and nearly impossible to capsize much less sink and can be sailed by expert & novice alike. Another nice feature of the Ensign is the huge cockpit which can seat up to 6 adults. They are also fairly easy to trailer.
Your choices will probably be limited mostly by what is nearby but the farther afield you look the more options you will find. I know of at least one Ensign for sale in Nyack; not right around the corner but at least in the same state.

Ensigns are still raced competitively if you get bitten by that bug.

Good luck finding a new instructor and a "new" old boat.
Thank you!! Good to know about the J boats. I really, really don't want to deal with capsizing a boat that long. The 14 footer was enough excitement for me!

Nyack isn't far at all. I'll go look at the listing. I hadn't looked into the Ensign, actually hadn't heard of it, so I am glad I posted here - I appreciate the response!
Nancy
Nancyleeny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 75 Old 06-02-2014 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Far upstate NY!!
Posts: 219
Thanks: 349
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Advice For Good Boat To Learn On

Caleb,
The Ensigns I am finding in my price range are all 1960s boats. Anything wrong with that if all on the boat looks good? I read somewhere that if we were looking at Catalinas, to buy a later than 1986 or 84, I don't remember. So wondering if there was similar advice with these boats. Thanks!
Nancy
Nancyleeny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this boat good to learn to sail on? Link to pics thomasward00 General Discussion (sailing related) 4 09-13-2011 08:14 PM
How to Learn Boat Building in San Diego, suggestions, advice, etc. wanted kgruskin Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 07-04-2011 02:09 PM
Good Boat to Learn on Under 10k? Jason_Els Learning to Sail 19 06-26-2006 10:56 AM
A good boat to learn on scott9 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 02-16-2001 11:50 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome