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Husband fell in love with an 1978 Ericson Mark II 35.5

7K views 46 replies 18 participants last post by  Donna_F 
#1 · (Edited)
Oh, boy. We are new sailors, just learning, and at first we wanted a Pearson Ensign, but they are not too easy to find. Then we rented a boat for a night, just hanging out in the bay, and it was heaven!! We loved it, and are wanting to get a boat big enough to spend a weekend on. What complicates this is that my husband is 6ft 7 in, so the Catalina 22s we thought we might buy when we started our search are way too small for him. :laugher Just me, they would be great, but this guy needs a bigger boat.

I also liked this Ericson, it is gorgeous and in good shape, but it has a gas engine in it, and I have read many people saying NEVER get a gas engine. The engine is supposed to be good, it's an Atomic, but still...I have heard too much advice against the engine. The price seems reasonable for the boat, it is in good shape, the sails are practically brand new, everything is good except for that gas engine.

Do any of you have experience with this boat, and/or a gas engine? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!
Nancy



http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...1348178691000&photo_name=Photo+0&photo=0&url=

The other boat we liked is a 1974 34 foot Tartan.
 
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#2 ·
Here's the thing. People use gas engines all the time, you just have to be (very) careful. If you like the boat, the fact that it is not diesel should not be a deal stopper. What is a deal stopper is THE Condition of the Boat! If you are new to owning this type of boat, you need to get expert advice. Look the boat over with a very critical eye. Keep lists of what needs to be done, and an estimate of the time and price involved. Get a professional mechanic to look over the engine with great attention. If you are still serious, have a professional surveyer look at it to nail down what needs to be fixed. Old boats can be money (and time) pits. They can also be absolutly great. The Erickson is a fine boat, and if it passes your tests, it might be a great boat for you.
 
#3 ·
Hi Scotty,
Thanks for the great advice. We had planned on getting a marine survey, but not the mechanic. Since we are such newbies, we will definitely do that. The asking price is in the low 20s, it seems very clean and cared for, but what do I know?? Nothing. So thank you.
Nancy
 
#4 · (Edited)
The atomic 4 is a fantastic engine. Very reliable and easy to work on. They are also very common so it isn't too hard to find someone to work on it if you aren't handy yourself. I have an Ericson E32 and love it. I bought this boat to flip but ended up falling in love and have no plans on getting rid of it any time soon. My boat hadn't seen water in over 14 years when I bought it and I was very concerned about the engine. It had old gas in and the carb was a mess gummed up. After putting fresh gas in and cleaning out the carb it fired right up and needed very little additional work. It purrs like a kitten, not bad for a 43 year old engine!! I do not see any evidence that the motor has been rebuilt in any way so as far as I can tell it is all original. Parts are very cheap and can be found all over. Check out the links below for more info.



Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Engine Rebuilding and Parts
 
#6 ·
Thank you all for your advice! Here's my Neurotic Nancy question.

With our SeaRay, we have to put the blower on for a few minutes before firing up the engine and I understand this is the same. That takes a few minutes. Is there ever a situation when sailing that a few minute delay in getting the engine on would be very dangerous? Like, do you ever have to get that engine on ASAP?

Thanks for all of your generous advice,
Best,
Nancy
 
#7 ·
Sigh.

If you have developed a prejudice against gasoline engines or the Atomic-4, I'll never change your mind, but since you asked...

1. Yes, running the blower for a couple of minutes prior to use is normal, and the same as done on your SeaRay.

2. Usually, Atomic-powered boats have a vent facing forward and another facing aft. One forces air in, and the other draws air out while the boat is moving (even under sail). For this reason, you are often safe to start the engine with only a short moment on the blower in an emergency situation.

3. If your fuel system is tight, with no leaks, and the tank is vented outside of the engine space, there should never be combustible fumes in the engine compartment. The blower is a "just in case" preventative measure.

I have nothing against diesel engines. If my boat had been equipped with a diesel engine, I'd be just fine with that but it wasn't. It has an Atomic-4, so I studied the engine with an open mind before trashing it.

My A-4 starts immediately whenever called upon to do so. It idles and runs under load perfectly. It consumes .7 gallons per hour at 1/2 throttle, where a similar diesel will consume .5 gallons per hour. It's not as efficient as a diesel, but that's not a big enough difference to warrant a re-power. I'm on my third year with this boat and engine.

In summary:
If the Ericson's Atomic-4 is healthy and running smoothly, enjoy the boat and leave the engine the hell alone. If the engine has problems such as low compression or steam in the exhaust, walk away or re-power with a Beta diesel, if you really love the boat.

Don't do a re-power just for the sake of doing a re-power, and don't be afraid of the Atomic-4 just because it's a gasoline engine. They are strongly supported with advice, service and parts.
 
#28 ·
Thank you!! You have allayed my fears. I am not against a gas engine, I was just being neurotic about the fumes, and my friend also tells me that for resale it might be tougher, but I can't imagine us reselling for quite a while. We would have to move up to a 37 or so to get more room, and they are generally 40K more than these boats. I think we would really love the Ericson!!

Thanks,
Nancy
 
#8 ·
I have never had a situation where I needed the motor running ASAP. The issue with the exploding gas is really over-hyped and a lot of people have an irrational fear of gas. Yes, it does happen and it always makes the news when it does because exploding boats is headline news but it isn't as common as some people would like you to believe. Millions of gas boats are started every day without exploding. If you factor in all of the fishing an pleasure boats the number of gas far exceeds the number of diesels (at least here on the Great Lakes.) In my home port it is easily 5 gas to one diesel. You just have to take normal precautions and be strict with your maintenance. Keep your fuel lines up to date, make sure there are no gas leaks around your carb or filters, be careful when fueling, etc. My engine compartment also has passive vent so it always has some airflow (especially while sailing) and it is never sealed up tight. If you are overly concerned you can get a fuel vapor detector for about $150. If you had to fire up the motor right away in a MOB or similar emergency I would not hesitate to do it without first running the blower but I am also confident that my fuel system is in perfect working order and I inspect it often. You really don't have anything to worry about.
 
#10 · (Edited)
that atomic 4 looks to be in nice shape...x2 on bh advice

for info and parts moyer marine...they also have a huge following and advice and info can always be had...not the same can be said for many old unsupprted diesels.

dont get sucked into the hearsay fear game...

ps. they are smooth as heck, clean and very quiet compared to a rattly old diesel

just so you know

per that 1 pic I can tell you that the heat exhchanger hasnt suffered a common issue which is a hot spot right at the circle in front...this happens when the internal passages are clogged...the wiring and alternator look well installed and the carb intake is nice and clean with the hose correctly installed over it...

there is an interesting wire to the flywheel but I BETCHA its a nice new tachometer that read off the flywheel

looks good

decent compression should be hovering around 110psi...with 5psi diff max between cylinders...my old atomic had 100 all round with number 3 I belive at a slightly low 95...

however these engines can run as low as 60 and still be fine...

anywhoo
 
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#11 ·
+1 on what Bubble said.

I can't seem to find where you said you were considering a re-power, but if I missed it, having done one, keep in mind that you will pay close to the selling price of the boat mentioned in your original post to get a brand new engine. Re-built slightly less.
 
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#12 ·
The value of the boat will go up with a diesel, but it won't increase by the value of the labor and diesel you put in. If you plan on keeping the boat for a long time, then the investment can even out and be worthwhile. If you aren't sure, then it's an expensive investment if you plan on turning around to sell the boat in a few years.

Personally, I wouldn't own a boat with an Atomic 4. Flame away, but when we looked at boats, it was an immediate turnoff for us on several boats. The idea of having to keep gas on board made me really uneasy and I know that I would end up worrying about it. I know people think we're being paranoid, but it's one less safety critical item to worry about on the boat and one less thing to forget.

We had the choice on our "must have" list and diesel was definitely on there.

Personally, if I loved the boat and it had an Atomic 4, I'd heavily negotiate the price based on the idea that I'd have to repower, expecting that (if you don't repower) buyers later down the line are likely to do the same thing.
 
#13 ·
...

Personally, if I loved the boat and it had an Atomic 4, I'd heavily negotiate the price based on the idea that I'd have to repower, expecting that (if you don't repower) buyers later down the line are likely to do the same thing.
First though, check with similar boats for sale and make sure that the price isn't already adjusted for it. I'm coming across that in our boat shopping. Boats with a certain engine brand are considerably less than the similar boat without.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I can say that after having a diesel and the atomic 4, I would not go back to diesel. The A-4 is one of the smoothest engines you can get and darn near bullet proof. But in the unfortunate event that something happens to my A-4 I bought a spare motor so I can put the same thing right back in there. There really isn't anything scary about them. Check out the forum on the moyer site. It is probably one of the most active forums you will find dedicated to a single engine.

Also, it would be a very poor decision to re-power the boat. You would have almost 50% of the value of the boat into it and you would never recoup that. The conversion itself would cost almost as much as the new motor. You have to build new mounts, new gauges and controls, new exhaust, new electrical. It's a lot more labor intensive that a direct swap would be. If you want diesel over gas, go buy a diesel. You will be money ahead. The best thing you can do is take the boat out for a test drive and see how you like it.

P.S. I think diesel fuel distributors must be pumping out some subliminal messages putting irrational fear in people's minds. hahaha
 
#15 ·
P.S. I must confess, my opinion is biased. I am an Ericson owner with an Atomic 4 and I love them both. The old Ericsons really turn heads at the Yacht club. I can't tell you how many compliments I have received on it.
 
#19 ·
While your questions concerned the engine...gas vs. diesel...and most have opined on this...I would just say that from reading the original post, there is a considerable difference between a 22' boat and a 35' boat in terms of everything, mainly cost. Everything on a 35' boat will be exponentially more expensive...particularly one that is 36 years old...that seems quite a jump in size...just a thought. Not meant to steer you away from it...
 
#20 ·
There is nothing wrong with an Atomic, they are a great little engine. The problems stem from poor/dangerous electrical, fuel and ventilation systems. I've surveyed hundreds of boats with these engines and have yet to see one that did not have non-ignition protected electrical equipment in the engine fuel/compartment .... everything from non-certified battery chargers to domestic shore power breaker panels and DC connections made with marettes all over the compartment.

Ventilation systems that are not laid out properly and simply don't ventilate the way they are supposed to or send the same air around in circles and engine compartments that are not vapour tight to the accomodation spaces (many with direct vents to the saloon!).

Fuel systems with improperly installed tanks and incomplete or non-existent continuity between fuel fill and engine.

Diesel engines in boats of that vintage were a significant "upgrade" dollar wise and very few (none that I have seen) builders seemed to know/care that gasoline required very different ventilation/electrical/fuel installations.
 
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#21 ·
Here is the soldboats.con data for gas E 35 for boats sold since 1/1/13.

Year Listed $ Sold $ Location
1974 16,000 (05/14) 16,000 (08/14) MI
1976 22,900 (07/12) 20,000 (05/13) WI
1974 12,950 (10/11) 8,000 (07/14) CA

The sale at 16k was a full price offer on a one owner boat and the one at 20k had a pretty extensive refit in 2009.

I wouldn't be afraid of a good boat with a good engine but the fuel capacity seems a little light? It looks like you have some negotiating to do!

As has been stated, Moyer Marine is a great resource.

Good luck.
 
#22 ·
If you are also looking at the tartan at Bruce Hill, they are both very nice looking boats. I have emailed them a few times and seemed pretty honest about condtion of a few boats I was kind of interested in. I am in the Mid Hudson so they would be a drive for me to get there, so I was glad he let me know some boats were a real project boat, so I did not waste my time.

I would personally prefer diesel, but that goes for cars as well, so I am not average. I think since you have experience with gas power boats you should be fine. All of above is right. The Atomic Bomb is a very reliable motor, but it is not a diesel. Now whether or not that is good or bad is really irrelevant what it really means is that it will be harder to sell as most people want the Diesel and it will sell for a lower price. Keep in mind a full rebuilt exchange is around 6 grand(much less if you want to rebuild yourself), and will be good for another 30 years but to put in a new diesel will cost as much or more than the boats you are looking at. Given the cost of putting in a diesel, it really cancels out the the idea of putting one in the boat unless you know you will be keeping it for a long time. So given that it really makes sense to get a boat with one, if you think you want one.

I really like that Ericson 35.
 
#23 ·
Nancy,
BubbleHead and Krazz and Christian are spot on. The Atomic 4 is a great engine. I do however disagree with one point: The blower is always important. In an emergency part of the proceedure is to allow at least 2 minutes of blower time. Passive ventilation is very important, but not to ignore the blower. Even in a MOB situation, the minutes to blow the engine are prudent. You are unlikely to ever be in a situation where the 2 minutes are an issue. Sure diesels are great to have, but in that boat, an Atomic 4 is just fine ... If it is in good condition!!
 
#25 ·
4 minutes is the LAW in Canada and US.

Transport Canada TP1332E requires that blowers be run for at least 4 minutes before starting a gasoline engine on a boat.

United States Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Sub-part K, 183610 (f) also requires thatblowers be run for at least 4 minutes before starting a gasoline engine on a boat.
 
#30 ·
As for boats with more head room and a shower look here . The key is pilot house. Sailboatdata.com, Sailboat List, Sailboat search, Sailboat builders, Sailboat Links
Here are some more. Ignore the Westsail 28 and the PS Lancers. Sailboat designs of Herb David by year
Do you plan on a trailer boat or are you ready for a slip ?
Thank you! I will go check them out.

We are not going to pull the gas engine out, and put in a diesel. And we are comfortable with gas engines, since we have one on our SeaRay. I will, however, make sure both a mechanic and a surveyor check out the boat, and I will make sure we have everything up to code, and then extra precautions, because I am a wee bit neurotic. But we really did love the boat!!

Now we have to negotiate the price and find a place to moor it in Mallett's Bay for the rest of the season if successful!!
Nancy
 
#37 ·
my old boat had that label it was on the steps along with the bilge and discharge warning, came on the boat when new

anywhoo without this getting into a gas no gas thread and having it explode like all atomic 4s and palmers and albins other gas engines do

it comes down to this:

familiarity with these fuels and knowledge will eliminate all this hooplah about risk and potential explosions etc...

my atomic 4 "ritual" was as follows

1.open engine hatch(steps)
2.look for leaks
3.check oil, breather cap vent.
4.blower 2-3mins while I go on deck check exhaust is free.
5. check batteries and make sure its on starter, check voltage
6. start engine with full choke, mid revs, run 15-30 secs on choke, check exhaust flow.
7. push choke in slowly back to closed, while revving down throttle.
8.idle for a while and check temp, as soon as it starts rising you can think about moving.
9.leave blower on depending on where the wind is coming from....
10. enjoy sail after getting to where you need to be, shutoff engine. leave blower on a few secs or minute after shutoff. Check again for leaks.

Done.
With the exception of the blower I did the same with a 2gm, a vetus, or whatever...Only difference is on diesels I would let the engine idle down after a hot run to let it cool down a bit.

on the atomic 4 you can be a bit more stop and go, as a car would be for example with no ill results.

anywhoo
 
#38 ·
From the pics of the boat in question, it looks like a PO has done some remodeling of the interior. The E35-2 had a U-shaped "dinette" on the port side, with the engine compartment being under the dinette seating closest to the companionway. The pics show a bulkhead-mounted table that folds up. Unfortunately that are no pics showing hoe the engine is situated. I would have a surveyor take a VERY close look at any mods that have been done. If it's just a matter of reconfiguring the forward part of the dinette that probably isn't too big a deal, as long as the bulkhead is still properly supported/secured. However, if the engine was moved that IS major. In either case, make any offers on the boat contingent upon the results of a survey, and have your surveyor pay particular attention to any interior mods and to that main bulkhead (as they are subject to rot in the E35-2, and many other older boats).

BTW
Your first instinct about gas engines was right -- they are inherently more dangerous than diesels. You can mitigate much of the danger. But no matter how careful you are, or how many blowers you have, an A4 will always be more dangerous than a diesel.
 
#39 ·
one thing people dont mention about the dangers of diesels(mostly because most never experience this sort of thing, wink wink) is how they can runaway from you if you have a leaking fuel pump or diaphragm that dilutes the oil enough to cause the engine to run independntly of throttle input

in some cases they cannot be shut off unless you drain the oil or physicalyl stop the tranny in gear but that causes catastrophic damage...either way

now imagine a runaway stuck in gear having to wait for all the fuel to burn off..jajajaja

NOW THATS DANGEROUS

anywhoo

people can like and dislike whatever they want

facts are facts and atomic 4 explosions, palmer p60 explosions and other gas engine explosions and dangers are not even remotely close to being even recordable compared to the typical propane leak and bilge explosion, or co2 poisoning from heaters or other such things as being struck by lightning or having a shark chomp off your foot while checking the anchor in the azores...

alas...no point getting extreme defending one side or not...plenty of boats and engines to chose from!

good luck nancy
 
#41 ·
Most of the fish boats I knew back before when were gas engined. (converted car engines mostly some with up draught carbs so that a stuck float would safely drain into the bilge) Any comment about bilge blowers would cause blank stares. Only fires I can think of were caused by not filling the deck iron on the oil stove or filling the lanterns while still burning. It's possible to screw up any system .The most dangerous part is the operator.
 
#42 ·
I have a friend that is selling an Ericson 35. He has $40 into it. It has a diesel with a recent rebuild. He wants $22k for it but he will take much less as he just got hired to run a 54' ketch in the Caribbean. The boat is located in Connecticut.

I'm 6'3.5" tall and the headroom was fine for me.

Send me a PM if interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#43 ·
Morning,
Sadly, we are going to wait until spring, because we can't find any mooring in the bay we are want to be until then. It doesn't make sense to buy it, pay to keep it on its cradle where it is, pay to winterize it, and not use it at all until spring.

But I think we are sold on the Ericson. My husband won't even look at anything else now!!! And thank you for all of your help and information. I printed out all of the pages of this conversation for reference and a check list.

Nancy
 
#47 ·
Morning,
Sadly, we are going to wait until spring, because we can't find any mooring in the bay we are want to be until then. It doesn't make sense to buy it, pay to keep it on its cradle where it is, pay to winterize it, and not use it at all until spring.

But I think we are sold on the Ericson. My husband won't even look at anything else now!!! And thank you for all of your help and information. I printed out all of the pages of this conversation for reference and a check list.

Nancy
We did that. Bought our boat at the end of September. The owners didn't want to pay for insurance and storage over the winter so they were eager to get it off their hands. We had a fantastic sail to our home marina and then spent the rest of the season puttering and cleaning and poking around in it until it was time to winterize. Over the winter we whiled away the snowy days by dreaming of places to go, making lists of things we needed to do on the boat. We were pretty much ready to hit the water sailing in April.

One suggestion for when you do get your boat. You can save a LOT of money winterizing yourself. For the first few years we let the marina commission and de-commission until we felt more comfortable doing things ourselves. Now we save a bundle each year and smacked our heads over how expensive simple things were to take care of.
 
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