Morgan 41 OI stability

[Surfesq]

JeffH! You should read this thread all over again. You are such a Fight Clubber! Way before my time.
I am impressed that you have the Stones to stand up for what you believe in when it comes to design and you clearly have the knowledge to back up your opinions.
You are absolutely right! Some boats are floating RVs and have no business in true blue water. The Morgan to which you refer is such a boat. It is clearly built for Island hopping. God forbid if you tried to take it North of Nova Scotia to Ireland.

[sailingdog]

Just remember the stabilty numbers are affected by a lot of factors, including your stowage plan, whether you have a life raft on deck, and things like that. Going by the pure numbers can give you a baseline...but it may or may not be accurate for a particular boat, depending on what the owner has done to it, and how it is setup. If you've added in-mast or in-boom furling, then the numbers change a bit...etc...

[Brojees]

I was raised in part by a half crazy Irish Tinker who hauled me about the Cariribean and the Keys on a 48' Dutch leeboard schooner, (Now would you calculate her "Stability factor" with the lee leeboard hard on the lee or flopping away to windward with your granda yelling that you had not hauled quick enough?). Those intriguing Carribean storms were a favourite sailing window for him, something to do with the clinking cargo he made his living at.

I never lost my sealegs going thru various boats, racing in the Lightning class to really give me an education. Later lived aboard & cruised a Tripp 30 that is possibly the most solid fiberglass boat ever built. No hull deck joint! None, NADA! Two major thwartships complete bulkheads and fiberglass cloth so thick you bought thru hulls designed for wood. STIFF!! You jump on the deck and there was ZERO flex. Modified full keel heavily ballasted and low 5/8 masthead rig. Stability factor? LOLOL!!! Whats the score for righting herself from turtle? I swear she could!

I am ashore briefly and thinking of a boat. My playground will be the Carribean with possibly a trip some day to EUROPE. My wife and I will at times live aboard when we come up to the states, but basically we will be coastal to the northern coast of SA and island hopping in the lower Carribean. So if I want a crew, I need a boat with a high liveability quotient, a low initial capital quotient, reasonable seaworthiness, and resalibity. Oh, and no damn leeboards!!

Speed is not the driving issue here....were it there is a 26 foot bilgeboard scow for sail that I swear could upwind a few Hobies!! Now that would be a laugh!! Those ironing boards with masts are fast!

Heavy weather is not the issue either. Oh I certainly know all about rogue storms, I swear Granda could actually predict them! But due diligence also dictates the skipper prudently limit his passages to the capabilities of his boat and crew. In other words, on the hook in a protected harbour is a fine way to ride out a storm, my cargo doesn't clink...instead my cargo would curse me in fiery Spanish if I had her out rolling from rail to rail. I seriously doubt she would accept the role of self propelled ballast, no matter how many roses I brought her.

So I am looking favourably at the OI41...with all due diligence and with my eyes wide open to her faults. As someone said, any boat is a compromise and every boat has it's place including that crazy tub of my Granda...She had an 18" draft!!... Something about unloading cargo privately in strange places.

[greatlaker]

I was just wandering what would happen if a boat goes past the point of positive stability. So in the Morgan's case what would happen if it was pushed over 105 degrees.





-Tom

[sailingdog]

Most boats that are pushed past their point of positive stability invert... they turn turtle. Some of them will recover from this position, some will not. Some will start to sink, as the amount of water that enters the cabin once they are inverted causes them to lose buoyancy.

[camaraderie]

While Jeff and I have disagreed over a few things here...I stand with him on this one. The OI's are fine liveaboard boats and work great in Carib trade wind sailing but they are not built or designed to be bluewater boats. All kinds of boats have made blue water passages...that does not mean they are bluewater boats. While the stability #'s are light, I would focus more on construction variability and quality.
You could happily and safely motor & sail all the way down the East Coast and through the Bahamas into the Carib on this boat...but I wouldn't take her down "route 66" unless I was feeling "lucky"!

[evasion]

Surfesq,

You said: "God forbid if you tried to take it North of Nova Scotia to Ireland."

Guest what? that's exactly what my Morgan OI 414 hull 037 did without much problem...

The worst part of this trip trough out Europe is the enormeous storm the boat got into in the middle of winter in Méditérranée. A few Italian boats were lost and many lives gone. The Morgan got several Knock down in this "perfect storm" but did not turn over like a turtle and the crew of the OI41 was just fine.

I'm not telling that this cannot happen with the Morgan 41. In reality I would like to ear (but never heard) a story of a Morgan 41 turn over and sinking because not coming back. Any story about this or not? Mine got extreme weather and log many oceanic voyages...and never flip over.

I would like to explain more succesfull "long cours" crossing of my OI 41 did, but my english is very approximate...

Also, you have to keep in mind that OI 41 are old boat, not all of them are ship shape to go offshore at this time and may need a lot of upgrade to do so...but they are basically stable and solid boat (if maitenance was done correctly)

[mbu745]

Hello, I'm Willy and want to buy a Morgan 36' Out Island to make a world trip. Is a shoal draft a good idea, what about centre cockpit. ALL information is very welcome, are there other boats more reliable for such a trip? Willy.

[camaraderie]

Willy...try one of these instead.
http://www.mahina.com/boats.html

Shoal draft is not a particularly good idea for a circumnavigator but more than 6ft. tends to reduce your cruising options.
I would not recommend a center cockpit boat in less than 40'.

[unlaub]

having grown up on a morgan 41 ("bluebonnet" hull #11, 7th one off the line) i speak from experience in foul weather. my dad was stationed to hawaii, the boat performed fine the entire 4 years there, we sailed it back to st pete via the canal, off acapulco we spent 4 days in hurricane delores. while it was never comfortable "bluebonnet" handled it fine other than ripped sails, a flooded engine, and the typical disaster of stowed items thrown about. because we were the first one through a hurricane at sea, charlie morgan had the boat pulled and inspected by the factory reps. a crack in the hull below the starboard settee was the only structural damage. (the later morgans were reinforced both sides at this point) later, while stationed in south georgia, "bluebonnet" went through 2 more hurricanes. we took her out away from the dock and let her ride them out at anchor awy from the other boats. She did great.
mixed amongst these incidences were many cruises in the chesapeake, up and down the east coast, and along the florida coast. she performed admirably. even surviving the young helmsman hitting the docks, channel markers, and backing over the dinghy.
down side to the morgan is slow response in light winds. many people have called her a pig to sail, and a slow cruiser. set the facts straight. she wasn't designed for light winds. while in hawaii, we were running third in the molokai channel race until her steering block broke loose in the engine room. we were able to maintain control steering with the mizzen while my dad fixed the block (unfortunately is was control going back the wrong way).
since those days, i have had the good fortune to have owned a 24' islander, a columbia 8.7, a cal 25, and quite a few assorted small boats. I got my oupv license, have operated as a boat builder and ran a marine salvage company. today, i am once again looking for a oi 41 ketch rig.

sum it up - if you are sailing in sheltered waters, find a lighter boat. if you are planning offshore or sailing in tradewinds, then (in my opinion) you cant beat the oi-41.
granted, the interior, cosmetics, and toys that came with the morgans are outdated, inferior, and sometimes even tacky - but most people will eventually upgrade with what they want.
chuck