Why are Nonsuch's so much? - SailNet Community
 34Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 32 Old 10-11-2014 Thread Starter
Old enough to know better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 4,127
Thanks: 25
Thanked 175 Times in 171 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Why are Nonsuch's so much?

First off I like them esthetically, but I don't think they are for me. I keep seeing 30-36 footers listed for around $60,000 to $80,000 while other boats in that same size and quality have dropped way down. While many of these look to be well maintained, many don't look like they have had much in the way of updates. That makes sense given there KISS kind of style. Just an example:

1985 Nonsuch 30 with Ultra Layout | eBay

Is this person just dreaming or do they really sell at that price? Heck that one has no new electronics, original worn upholstery, granted it does look good on the outside.

They seem to be well made boats, but not that much better than other quality brands. I understand they have a unique rig and layout, but that has as many downsides as it does up sides. Heck it they really were the rig/layout to beat all there would be other companies making them. Why are they seeming to get about twice the money other equally well built boats? Heck they are listed at twice the price of many CS yachts. I just don't get it. Heck most of them have the propane water heaters that are not even installed in accordance with ABYC.

And I am not griping because they are out of my price range (though they are), just they don't seem to really be able to justify there price. It is not like they are a Hinkley or some hand made exotic boat.
miatapaul is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 Old 10-11-2014
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 18,563
Thanks: 137
Thanked 477 Times in 451 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
First off I like them esthetically, but I don't think they are for me. I keep seeing 30-36 footers listed for around $60,000 to $80,000 while other boats in that same size and quality have dropped way down. While many of these look to be well maintained, many don't look like they have had much in the way of updates. That makes sense given there KISS kind of style. Just an example:

1985 Nonsuch 30 with Ultra Layout | eBay

Is this person just dreaming or do they really sell at that price? Heck that one has no new electronics, original worn upholstery, granted it does look good on the outside.

They seem to be well made boats, but not that much better than other quality brands. I understand they have a unique rig and layout, but that has as many downsides as it does up sides. Heck it they really were the rig/layout to beat all there would be other companies making them. Why are they seeming to get about twice the money other equally well built boats? Heck they are listed at twice the price of many CS yachts. I just don't get it. Heck most of them have the propane water heaters that are not even installed in accordance with ABYC.

And I am not griping because they are out of my price range (though they are), just they don't seem to really be able to justify there price. It is not like they are a Hinkley or some hand made exotic boat.
I'm with you all the way.. it's a mystery and I can only put it down to a near-cult following and strong owners' group. Perhaps being a very unique, North American/Canadian build helps too, but CS would fall into that category to some degree.

While they seem very "roomy" - esp for their length - I think that impression suffers somewhat when you realize there's nothing ahead of that main bulkhead.

But I get the simplicity of the concept, I don't think they're underpowered in any way and probably are hard to catch reaching. I sailed a short beat last weekend 'against' one last weekend.. surprised how high they could go, but they definitely weren't as fast through the water.

Interesting question..

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 32 Old 10-11-2014
Don't call me a "senior"!
 
Puddin'_Tain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 968
Thanks: 0
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

Go to Sailboatdata.com and compare the drawings for a Nonsuch 30 to those for a Catalina 30 (just as an example). The Nonsuch has over a foot more beam, it has quite a bit more "blunt" bow (what's the official term for this?), and it carries that beam WAAYYY aft. The overall result is that the Nonsuch has a LOT more interior volume. And, that extra beam undoubtedly gives the Nonsuch more initial stability, so I would expect that she sails a bit flatter in most conditions. Hinterhoeller also has quite a bit better reputation for quality than many (most?) other builders. They aren't particularly fast boats. But that also means that a 20 or 30 y.o. Nonsuch is far less likely to have experienced the sort of use and abuse that comes with racing.

Put it all together and I don't think it too much of a surprise that Nonsuch boats command such a premium price.
flyrod likes this.

"If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." --- E.B. White
Puddin'_Tain is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 32 Old 10-11-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast U.S
Posts: 953
Thanks: 5
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

Well I may be biased since I own a 1986 30U. I got interested in looking at a Nonsuch when I wanted to step up from my Bristol 24. I had a good discussion with the Captain of the boat we had chartered on for a winter vacation back in the early 1990's. He had delivered a number of Nonsuches for a dealer and was schooled as a marine architect. He liked them for their simplicity of design, no stays to worry about and all lines come back to the cockpit including reefing lines.. Not a lot can go wrong with them. No mucking about on the foredeck until it's time to pick the mooring or anchor. He also said they were very well built. As others have said lot's of room below and good headroom (I'm 6'2). Lived aboard mine while working in New York City for about five years from April to December and loved it. Tough little boats. A book called WITHOUT RIVAL chronicles a Nonsuch 30 that was abandoned on the return leg of a Trans Atlantic crossing near the Azores and drifted over to Central America. Owner retreved it and is still sailing today.I finally bought mine in 1995 and have not felt the need to look at another boat since then. Love it even more now that I have converted it to electric propulsion. Would never think of selling it until I can no longer sail it.
flyrod and Jiminri like this.

Mike
Currently: Fixing things

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mbianka is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 32 Old 10-11-2014
Senior Member
 
Jiminri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 293
Thanks: 32
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

First, you have to consider that an ASKING price is not necessarily the SELLING price. I doubt the owner will get anywhere near the asking price for the boat on Ebay.

But, you're right...Nonsuches are not cheap. A 30 foot Nonsuch has a displacement of 11,500 pounds so you need to compare it to a >34 foot sloop. Even so, it will often be more expensive.

There is a lot of interior room on a Nonsuch and none of it needs to be devoted to sail storage because there only is one sail.

All boats are a compromise and the Nonsuch is no exception. It all depends on what you want out of a boat. They are fairly fast for cruisers and have more tankage than some modern boats of similar size (86 gallons water, 30 gallons fuel, 25 gallon holding tank). They have (at least the Ultra's do) a separate shower and standing headroom. All of the mechanics who have been on my boat have commented on how well built she is.

I think that the price for Nonsuches is because there is very little competition. If you want want what the Nonsuch offers, you have few options...maybe some of the Freedoms.

What you gain is a nice coastal cruiser, that is easy to single hand, and that avoids the maintenance costs associated with multiple sails, standing rigging, etc.

Is if for everyone? Of course not. I think you either love Nonsuches or you wonder why anyone would be crazy enough to want one. For me, it is a great boat for the Chesapeake and my shoal draft model (draws just under 4 feet), is perfect for getting into quieter coves.

Bottom line: if you want a sailboat, you can buy a great boat of another builder for far less. If you want a Nonsuch, you pony up the cash.
Maine Sail, Faster, flyrod and 1 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Nonsuch 30 Ultra #343 1986
West River, MD
Jiminri is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 32 Old 10-13-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 13,043
Thanks: 90
Thanked 114 Times in 109 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

There's a Nonsuch on my dock - they are WAAAY bigger than their LOA would lead you to believe. The 30 is as big or bigger than the 35's around it. The 26 is bigger than most 30's, even today when boats have generally gotten bigger for a given LOA.

Add to that the fact that they are well built, generally better maintained than average and unique - if you want a boat like them they're pretty much the only game in town.

I've never been a big fan but I can see why they retain value.
flyrod and mbianka like this.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 32 Old 10-13-2014
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,448
Thanks: 5
Thanked 118 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

I think in simplest terms it is just the market system at work. Demand is high in relationship to supply. For most models the supply is not that limited and the prices are high so it indicates very high demand. The most interesting Nonsuch in terms of price is the 22. They did not make many of them and there is nothing remotely like them so the prices are very high.

Gordon Fisher, the man who commissioned the first Nonsuch 30 later commissioned at 20' open catboat called a Naiad. His was cold-moulded and gorgeous. i sailed it once and it was great fun for a large, open, day sailor. A few were built in f/g. I imagine these would also be very expensive compared to boats of similar size and type.
flyrod and mbianka like this.

Finishing our major refit. Our trip to Newfoundland is off because it is too late. Hoping to go to the North Channel instead.
killarney_sailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 32 Old 10-13-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 253
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Hinterhoeller was quite simply a very fine builder. My surveyor raved over my 1968 HR28 during the entire survey.

I read reviews and the very worst one ever sees is that build quality was "average". So what builders are/were above or below average?
flyrod and mbianka like this.
hriehl1 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 32 Old 10-13-2014
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,448
Thanks: 5
Thanked 118 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

You can buy a new Nonsuch if you want. Andy Wiggers, was of Toronto has the moulds, at least for the 30 and 33 I think. He is a very good builder. They are now built with a carbon mast rather than aluminum. Paying new boat price of course but you can get it done your way.
flyrod likes this.

Finishing our major refit. Our trip to Newfoundland is off because it is too late. Hoping to go to the North Channel instead.
killarney_sailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 32 Old 08-26-2015
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Why are Nonsuch's so much?

The Nonsuch is one of the finest boats ever designed and built. It is not a Hinckley or a Swan and does not cost what those boats do. It is however far superior to most other boats built. It is a One-Design that has no direct competition and is a breeze to single hand. The fiberglass is of excellent quality. The teak and mahogany are solid, not laminated. The hardware is simply amazing. The wiring looks more like that from a house than from a boat. The battery charger, Seafrost and Espar items are the best in the world. George Hinterhoeller spared no-expense and placed the finest equipment available aboard these boats. I do not mean to be condescending but someone mentioned why would a 30 foot Nonsuch cost so much more than a 30 foot Catalina, Why does a Porsche Carrera cost so much more than a FIAT. Sorry but itís a fair comparison. One you can take around the world, the other one you can take to your mooring. The fact that 30 years later many of these boats look only a few years old versus other boats their age need complete rebuilds is yet another testament to this incredible boat. Next, the Nonsuch 30 is not a 30 foot boat at all. When you work up both the interior and exterior dimensions, itís more like a 35 foot boat than a 30. Its LOA and LWL vary by only by 1.5 feet. Few if any other boats can make that claim!!!!!!! If you do not know why the Nonsuch is worth so much, than you just do not know anything about them. It is not because of CULT status as one person mentioned, itís about QUALITY and the ability to stand the test of time. Finally, most people that purchased these boats spent well over $100,000 especially post 1984 with the ULTRA setup and Westerbeke engine. Boats like the Catalina were a dime a dozen and cost in the High 20ís to low 30ís. With this type of financial commitment on the water, these owners really took care of their boats so many of them today are still in excellent condition and that is the main reason that they sell for so much. They also make for an incredible ďLive-AboardĒ boat with excellent sailing characteristics and amazing stability both under sail and under power. I hope this helps to answer why the NONSUCH is worth so much more than other boats of its size. I have owned many boats including Tartans, Cape Doryís, San Juans, Sabres, Persons, and a Pacific Seacraft which is the only boat that I would say is on par if not slightly better than the Nonsuch. Final statement: A mint, well equipped 1985 Ė 1987 Nonsuch 30 should sell in the mid to high $70,000 range. Many sell for less because of the poor economy and the fact that many people just do not know enough about the boat and lob it in with the price of other 30ís. If you can get your hands onto a mint 30 for under 70K, Grab it and run like you stole it because these boats were never high volume and while you can have a new one built, it will cost you over $225,000 and I do not think they will ever be built to the same standards as the originals.
flyrod and mbianka like this.
Nonsuch 30 Rules is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
nonsuch 26 summergirl Boat Review and Purchase Forum 15 04-15-2016 07:10 AM
Nonsuch 33 davidpm General Discussion (sailing related) 21 06-05-2015 12:41 PM
Nonsuch nl836 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 07-17-2010 03:39 PM
Nonsuch 21 yfuchs Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 08-16-2008 10:04 AM
nonsuch 36 jsantos Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 12-02-2002 09:04 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome