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How old is too old and how cheap too cheap

8K views 31 replies 26 participants last post by  Woodvet 
#1 ·
I am 64 and have never sailed on my own! The retirement plan is to explore SE Alaska and Prince William Sound. I don't have much available cash and will not have a large retirement. I plan to take a basic to bareboat in June and go sailing off the coast of Ak. I found a 1971 Cascade 29 for $8,000 in SE Alaska. The pictures look good and the owner tells me it is solid and dry and every thing works. Since it is a $1,000 trip to go look at it I had a friend of a friend who lives in the area take look. He is not into sailboats but has a lot of time on powerboats in coastal waters. The info I got back was you get what you pay for, It is worn out, and He would not buy it. He also sent a lead on a 30Ft Rawson for $35,000. The advice I am looking for, since I can probably put together $30,000, should I continue to look for a newer one or go further with the investigation of this one? At $8,000 I would have some money to update but with a newer one there would be no $ left to refit/update/repair?
 
#2 ·
Be aware that many old boats have negative value - and are worth less, sometimes much less, than nothing. One of my former students was given a project Tartan 27 - after investing all his spare time for two years, and putting in thousands of his hard-earned money he finally realized his error and bailed on it. Don't let that happen to you.
Best to do a lot of crewing (several years at least) so you begin to know what to look for.
Many, many "cheap" boats are not bargains - far from it.
 
#3 ·
My advice would be to take the class FIRST, then think about purchasing. Find out what it takes, what you like, what you don't like and what you can live with.

Some older boats, (SOME) can be worth more than a newer one, if you know what you are looking for. ;)

Some new boats can gobble up a lot more extra $$ just to get them in a condition ready for "you" to cruise in. :eek:

Greg
 
#4 ·
Jack-
If you had never owned a car before, do you think you could buy an old used one sight unseen and not get stuck with something?

Same thing with boats, only more so. No seller (or broker) mentions the problems that might go unseen by a buyer.

So I'd suggest, do the boating courses. See if and how you like it, see what suggestions and connections you can make while taking the class, firsthand.

Then plan a trip, maybe to Seattle, maybe to Cali, find a place where there are many boats for sale, with active listings, and plan to spend some time looking at them, pick the best of the litter (or none if they're all mutts) and you'll have enough time to have a surveyor confirm your opinion, or find faults you've missed, and proceed with the contract and sale. You're looking at 2-3 weeks optimistically, because even after you buy a "new" new boat? You've got to do a shakedown sail, put in 48 hours on the water, find out if there's anything still wrong, order in parts and fix it...all before you can begin the happily-ever-after trip home.

In the long run, that will be the fastest AND cheapest way to buy your boat.
 
#5 ·
Either the Cascade 29 or the Rawson 30 will be good boats - way over built by modern standards. Another "Alaska strong" boat would be a Willard 30 cutter.
No matter what you decide to buy, get a good survey and follow that surveyor thru the boat and take notes...
As for the price, the recession has really pummeled the prices on boats like these, mostly because they are sought by a much smaller group of sailors than the majority part of the market that seeks huge-interior cheap-built floating RV's.

Opinions rendered while U wait, deposit .02 please!
:)

Regards,
Loren
 
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#7 ·
Develop some objective criteria about the design condition, equipment and needs of the boat you want. Price and age don't really have anything to do with anything (IMO of course). If you were on the east coast, I'd have ideas about what boats might suit your needs. Find someone who knows west coast boats well who can advise you about models which are likely candidates.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
howold is too old and how cheap too cheap

Owning a boat and maintaining a boat is not cheap or easy. When I bought my boat after lessons I spent a couple years learning the systems, fixing things and becoming an okay skipper. Year 3-4 I gained more confidence and started really learn sail trim and other advanced skills. Now at year 6 I realize boat ownership is one skill that I am proficient at and sailing is another that boat ownership can get in the way of in the beginning.

After you complete the sailing lessons charter a few times then try partnership and share the cost for a couple years. Out by me there are owner offering non equity partnership (renting partial use each month). This way you can Spend 100% of you time sailing and learn what you want in a boat. Try craigslist for these arrangements.
 
#10 ·
The advice above that says to take the course first is right on.

Then, remember that any used boat is going to take serious $$ to keep in seaworthy condition, so you can't spend everything you have, just to acquire.

BTW, I assume that cruising Prince William Sound is a fairly short season. Would it make sense to see if you could rent something? I've not heard of very many seasonal rentals, but something to poke around for anyway.
 
#11 ·
I am 64 and have never sailed on my own! The retirement plan is to explore SE Alaska and Prince William Sound. I don't have much available cash and will not have a large retirement.
Why not crew on someone else's boat first? Much cheaper and much safer. And if you like it, get your own boat. By that time you will have a much better idea what you like and what you need.
 
#12 ·
I agree with all of the above. However, if you have your head on your shoulders, you could get the best boat you can afford and start sailing. You will need to realize, that if you are learning-as-you-go, that you may be just day sailing for a while. Don't get yourself in over your head.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I have owned boats that ranged from 26 ft costing $5,000 to 55 ft costing $300,000 and the most fun I had was sailing in the PNW with my step-son on the $5,000 boat!

You are certainly not too old...my good friend sailed 1700 nm back to Miami from Grenada for his 80th birthday and then only because he needed knee replacements.

While I have done most of my sailing in Florida I have seen some great 30 ft boats with a reliable diesel that cost less than $10,000.

But take your time to learn and seek boats! First rule of sailing is:

'Never get in a hurry to make a fool of yourself!'

Good luck Phil
 
#15 ·
1 Get hold of Caseys book on Sailboat Maintenance. It has info on doing your own survey.

2 Don't worry about age or price. Instead worry about how well has the boat been maintained and are there any upcoming big ticket items.

3 Before you buy anything around 30 ft at least LOOK at a Catalina 30. IMHO one of the most comfortable 30 ft liveaboards. 1987 Catalina 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com The deep draft tall rig version is preferable.
 
#17 ·
You don't say how fit you are for your 64 years, but, in principle, age shouldn't deter you. You just have to use your years of experience to do this smartly. Taking classes is advisable. After each class, you should replicate the experience with one or more crew, so you become independent using the capability the class taught. The more you sail, the better you'll get and the faster you'll climb the learning curve. I would recommend you joining a sailing club and using their inventory of boats. This will stretch your dollars. Otherwise, volunteer to crew on others' boats. Or, consider bareboat chartering a few times a year. Finally, you could consider buying into a share of a boat. But, maintaining a boat is very expensive. And, that's after you've bought the boat. In any case, come on in! The water's warm (so to speak).
 
#18 ·
I am assuming you are meaning age of the boat your age is not an issue unless you make it one my dad is 90 and if you are on the water in prince William sound next summer look for us a Spencer 42 light blue and carrys the name LA ruina on her bows he would be happy to give you a few pointers on sailing
 
#19 ·
old is a state of mind in us folk, and it is a state of maintenance in boats, homes, cars etc.
my last couple boats were 1961, 64, 93 and my present one is a 63.

my primary driver when the sun shines is a 37 ford.

the equipment will do fine if properly maintained.
 
#20 ·
I am 64 and have never sailed on my own! .................... The advice I am looking for, since I can probably put together $30,000, should I continue to look for a newer one or go further with the investigation of this one?
I think you should learn and do some sailing first, then if you like it come back to the boat question.

But I also suspect you are looking at the boat now as a "how much would it cost to learn to sail and then get a boat question", which is how I started. In which case if you really are planning to sail much the $30k boat is probably more realistic in the long run.
 
#21 ·
There is another route for a cruiser learning to sail. Buy your boat and find someone to take you out a few times and show you the ropes. You would learn to sail and learn about your boat at the same time.

The kind of sailing you do as a cruiser is not rocket science, it is 99% common sense.

If you can sail off a mooring to begin with it may save you a few bumps. If you mess up in a marina scraped topsides or worse is the usual outcome on a mooring you just go round and try again.
 
#23 ·
I don't agree. :(

We found the correct cruising boat for us. Bought it in 1992. It could have taken off as it was.

But, we worked on making it more comfortable for us. Moved aboard full time in 1996. Retired in 2004 and sailed under the Golden Gate bridge and turned left. Cruised full time 24/7/365 for about 5 years. Had a family emergency that brought us back to the USA. Cruised back in the Bay area last year. New Orleans to Pensacola this year. Planning on more east coast sailing next year. ALL the SAME boat!!! :D

And it's still the perfect boat for us. :D:D:D

Greg
 
#24 ·
I would think the worst thing you could do would be to lump all boats in one Category,what I mean is that everyone cares for and upgrades differently.I just bought a 1999 Conversion Van that was in Immaculate shape all the way around.It took looking and looking but once I saw it I knew it was the one.I believe if you put enough time in it'll pay off in the long run.You may be able to get a boat that someone has invested a lot in, that will never get it back and knows it so they sacrifice the boat.The internet has made this much easier.I used a Craigslist tool that allowed me to search the whole country if I wanted,I think it was called SearchTempest.I looked and looked and looked but finally hit a home run,I believe you can do the same if you stay at it.Best of luck/
 
#25 ·
The advice given touches on what are really two independent considerations. First is simply about you personally... Are you cut out for the lifestyle? What seems adventuresome today might become burdensome in a year.

As for the boat, read "Sensible Cruising, The Thoreau Approach". You may need way less boat than you think, and simple systems have much to recommend them.

I bought a 28 foot 1968 Hinterhoeller for $1200 and put about 300 hours and $7,000 more into it. I now have a solid boat with all new plumbing, electrics, standing & running rigging, sails, barrier coat, lifelines and more.

Old? Yup. Cramped when compared to newer 28 footers? Yup. Do we make great meals on a two-burner kero stove and charcoal grill? Yup. Ready for any coastal cruising I choose? Yup.

The key is to know thyself and what provides happiness.
 
#26 ·
My friends tell me at 73 I am too old to sail.


I dont thank so, I am in good health I still climb my own windmill tower to fix it and oil it, cut my own fire wood there is not much I cant do, just a little slower, Just put new tin roof on my house.
My friends are retired sleep late , Not me I am up at 7AM. Go feed my 18 cows and one horse. I am in bed by 12 PM most night some times later.
My wife is 63 and good health.
Ok I dont think I am too old to have a 40 ft sail boat. When I was younger I did some sailing.

My plans are to sail from Texas to Panama City Panama for the winter every year.
All I need is to get me a sailboat, I am on Social Security and my wife is working. I had a good retirement, but the company I worked for filed bankruptcy lost most every thing, But life must go on, cant cry over spilt milk.

I will get my dream boat, Not going to give up.

So what do you all think??

PS there is some thing I cant do very well, My Spelling and Grammar is very bad.


Marlin
 
#27 ·
My friends tell me at 73 I am too old to sail.

I dont thank so, I am in good health I still climb my own windmill tower to fix it and oil it, cut my own fire wood there is not much I cant do, just a little slower, Just put new tin roof on my house.
My friends are retired sleep late , Not me I am up at 7AM. Go feed my 18 cows and one horse. I am in bed by 12 PM most night some times later.
My wife is 63 and good health.
Ok I dont think I am too old to have a 40 ft sail boat. When I was younger I did some sailing.

My plans are to sail from Texas to Panama City Panama for the winter every year.
All I need is to get me a sailboat, I am on Social Security and my wife is working. I had a good retirement, but the company I worked for filed bankruptcy lost most every thing, But life must go on, cant cry over spilt milk.

I will get my dream boat, Not going to give up.

So what do you all think??

PS there is some thing I cant do very well, My Spelling and Grammar is very bad.

Marlin
The key is to stay active, which sounds like you've done. The old farts who sit around watching tv all the time are the one's who have it worse, no matter their age.

Welcome to the forum. Good luck finding your boat and going sailing again. Don't let age get in the way, it's only a number. I've read of guys out there doing what they love into their 80s or even 90s (whether sailing or something else).
 
#31 · (Edited)
Any boat will require maintenance, some to keep it working and some just to make it look pretty. You can decide how much you want to put into either side of the maintenance issue. A 50 year old boat is probably a way better deal than a 15 year old boat if it's been maintained. A 15 year old boat's systems, rigging, sails, motor etc. are quite possibly near their end of life cycle. The gelcoat may still be bright and shiny but there is a monster lurking in the details. An older boat that has been maintained will have renewed all the systems and may have many years of life left in them. Of course there is the older boat that is in the same state as the 15 year old boat less the brilliantly shiny gel coat. Sometimes even the gelcoat is fine on an older boat and still may function perfectly well even though it looks a bit dull. Look at the details of sailing the boat, living on it and basic cost of ownership rather the bright and shinies.

There are too many people on this list who think you need a bright shiny new condomarina before you can venture beyond the finger pier. Fine if you are rich, famous or just foolish enough to buy a newer boat. That's not to say that an older boat will be a deal but it will certainly be a lot cheaper initially than a much newer boat and in a lot of cases, way better suited to serious voyaging. The Cascades were mostly sold as kits and finished by the owners. Construction quality can run the gamut. The nice thing about the Cascades is the hulls are near bullet proof and even though the finish work may be crap, the boat will still be way safer at sea than a new plastic fantastic. Having said that, just because a boat costs $X doesn't mean that is all the money you'll ever put into it. It is very easy to double the initial investment if you insist on new sails, canvas, a paint job, totally redoing the interior to yacht quality and/or replacing the rigging. If you can't do the job yourself, plan it costing way more than double. On the other hand, if you can live with a not so great appearance, sails that are not optimum shape, limited hardware, etc, you may be able to own the boat for years without putting any significant money into it beyond bottom paint and safety issues like rigging. I know in my case, the money I've spent on the boat has been largely related to my ego. Have a bad habit of wanting the boat exactly the way I want it for single handing and 'looking good'. Would have put a lot of money into a newer way more expensive boat to get it equipped the way I wanted it as well as the plastic classic that I own.

If you have very limited experience, sign up for a course or two to get the basics and an introduction about being on a boat. If you have the time and inclination sign on as crew for a delivery to see what an extended period at sea is like. Sure there are crew positions available right now for deliveries down the Pacific Coast or back from Hawaii to the mainland. Be aware that these will mostly be DELIVERIES, getting the boat from point a to b the quickest and cheapest, though not easiest, way possible. Boats are often skinned out racers that may sail well but need a lot of bodies to make them go or boats that an owner doesn't want to sail themselves for various reasons. Accepting a berth on an owner sailed boat down the coast may be the best indication of what life at sea is about. Unfortunately, there are owners and there are owners so be sure you are simpatico before you get 10 miles out to sea. I've always been the type who goes whole hog into something and found it's the the fastest way to learn. Wanted to learn to sail so bought a Sailfish kit and built it myself when I was 12. Later bought a 26' boat to sail between the Islands in Hawaii. Bought a Westsail Kit, finished it out and sailed to SoPac and back. Current boat is a '69 Pearson 35 that I've pretty much reconstructed mostly to fit my personal whims. It hasn't been easy, lost the tips of four fingers on the Westsail, and not cheap but have never regretted the experience. One thing I have found out, if there is a will to accomplish something, I've always been able to make it happen.
 
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