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  #11  
Old 07-03-2006
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What is the Boat Worth to you?

I could go on regarding this topic for quite some time and could probably conduct a seminar. In brief, my advise to you is to make an offer based on the values of the boat to you.

Sure, review published values, compare similar vessels and so forth. When it is all said and done, the boat has to mean something to you in terms of value.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2006
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I am not familiar with pricing for steel boats in Southeast Asia, and of course I have no idea what the boat looks like, but from the the way you describe her, here in the US she would probably be worth something down around $20K or less even, which is only because of the newish engine.

I would suggest that you ask a series of questions to refine your evaluation such as:
  • How long has the current owner had the boat?
  • Have they ever completely or partially replated the bottom?
  • What do they know about the prior owners of the boat and their maintenance?
  • Are there drawings that show the design of the missing mizzen mast and boom?
When I look at your goals, 'Bullet proof', and 'take me safely around the world at take me safely around the world at something over 5 knots take me safely around the world at something over 5 knots I would not say that this is the way to go. There is a lot to making a boat bullet proof. Because of electrolysis issues, bad wiring on a steel boat is way more serious than on a glass boat. It sounds like the boat probably has wooden spars. There is nothing bulletproof about 35 year old wooden spars.

Then there is the whole 'hitting a rock and repair anywhere' thing. When you talk about most yacht built steel boats from the 1960's they were not the most robust. Plating tended to be comparatively light and the boat has lived through 30 plus years of fatigue and corrosion. I doubt that you have any more resistance to a grounding than a comparatively robustly built glass boat.

While a skilled welder might be able to repair a steel hull anywhere, even the moderately skilled can make a simple repair in glass or glass and wood with materials easily carried aboard.

Then there is your goal to sail around the world at over 5 knots. That is pretty unlikely for a 34 foot boat with a full keel weighing 26,000 lbs (closer to 30,000 lbs if these are long tons as typically used in yacht design). I would expect that a more realistic average would be closer to 3- 3 1/2 knots. A 100 mile day would be a rarity for a boat like you are describing and would certainly no where near an expected average, even if you spent a larger than average portion of time motoring.

Jeff
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Old 07-03-2006
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As has been said, the value depends almost entirely on the individual boat. We bought a 1973 Dutch-built 14 metre steel cruiser in France for FF450,000 (about CA$90,000 at the time) and enjoyed six years of exploring. We sold her in France this spring for 80,000 Euros (about CA$112,000), quashing the theory that you always loose money on a boat.
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Old 07-09-2006
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Jeff,

Yes, at the end of the day this boat is 36 years old. I suppose I just have to face this bargain-busting fact.

Another question. Glass can be easily repaired but what about being holed? Certainly steel is better protection against that. What about those uncharted rocks and submerged cargo containers? Then again, do we really travel at speeds high enough that a collision with these things would sent us to the bottom?

On the question of speed, the total weight would not slow us down since it is drag, not mass, that we are working against. And drag is just a function of wetted surface area. If my Newtonian mechanics is correct the only thing that will suffer from weight is acceleration.

As always, thanks for your enormous help.
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Old 07-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edo Kazumichi
Another question. Glass can be easily repaired but what about being holed? Certainly steel is better protection against that. What about those uncharted rocks and submerged cargo containers? Then again, do we really travel at speeds high enough that a collision with these things would sent us to the bottom?

On the question of speed, the total weight would not slow us down since it is drag, not mass, that we are working against. And drag is just a function of wetted surface area. If my Newtonian mechanics is correct the only thing that will suffer from weight is acceleration.
Kevlar or spectra reinforced laminates are exceptionally difficult to hole...so if holing is a big concern of yours, have several layers of kevlar added to the boat's skin. A thick solid laminate hull is remarkably difficult to hole from impact. Abrasion is a different story and steel hulls are far more abrasion resistant.

Also, some steels are poorly made and can have structural defects, like the ones used on the Titanic, and fail catastrophically under impact, shattering instead of bending... This is exceptionally rare now-a-days, but might be an issue in a four-decade old boat.

Corrosion is a far bigger issue than collision as a general rule. It is ongoing and ever present, and a much bigger issue with a steel hull than a GRP one.

Uncharted rocks aren't that much of a problem on the open ocean, as the ocean is far deeper and wider than your boat... it is only near shore that it is a problem, and that can be handled for the most part by keeping an appropriate watch.

Keeping a proper watch will also help avoid semi-submerged shipping containers, which are not as big a hazard as many make them out to be. Consider this... Most containers have to be knocked off of a ship's deck before hitting the water. The height of the deck is often eighty or more feet from the water. The chance of the container landing in the water with out any damage is relatively small. Once holed, the containers will tend to sink, as most goods either absorb water or are denser than water.

Even a low-speed collision has the potential to send your boat to the bottom. IMHO, you're better off in a boat that is easier to maneuver and has less inertia working against you. Generally, the boats that are easier to maneuver and have less total mass, are also a bit faster in design. YMMV. What good is seeing the shipping container, if your boat is unable to dodge it?

The total mass of the boat does work against you. The inertia of the boat and the drag caused by the hull both have to be overcome before the boat can be accelerated. A heavy steel boat, like the one you're describing, has enough mass that in the light winds that are very common, you'd be very lucky to get moving at 3 knots. The boat is also limited by hull speed, which in the case of a 36' boat is only about nine knots, and with a boat that heavy, you'll be lucky make five.

Unlike what most people think, light air is far more common than heavy air on the open ocean. Most of the bluewater sailors I know tell me the most important thing for good passagemaking ability is good light air performance—either by getting the right light air sails or by boat design.

There are a few places that I would probably rather sail in a metal ship, rather than a GRP one. The extreme latitudes, where ice and icebergs are common is probably the only one I can think of. The coast lines in these areas also tends to be far more rocky than in more temperate climes. The colder water is less of a problem with respect to corrosion as well.

Just my $.02 worth.
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