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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2006
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She's a good, structurally sound boat that has been on the market and basically neglected for 24 months. The owner no longer lives in the area where the boat is. Asking is $114,000
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2006
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PaulK's points are pretty good too... there are situations where the boat will be sold for far less or far more than it is worth...

Each boat and sale is fairly unique...even if the boats are similar... Some owners are willing to sell the boat for less than they're asking...others have some deluded idea that their boat is worth more than the actual market value..and will refuse to budge at all.

You also don't say what kind of boat it is... hard to give you advice on a specific offer to make...if we have no idea what the boat is. There are many boats that are worth $114,000, many that are worth more, and many that are worth far less.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2006
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i looked at a J37 several years ago, nice shape in California. If I remember right hey were asking 89k. One day I saw it on Yachtworld for 54k sale pending. That is a pretty good mark down. It came back on the market a year later at 57k and sold in a few months. A J37c might be worth more and location will make a difference. I think I have seen this boat on Yachtworld, it's been for sale for years. I would figure out how good the equipment list is and what the boat needs. Major issues with any older boat are: engine, bottom blisters, soft decks, sail inventory and condition. Does it have the equipment that you want? You should check out the boat very closely yourself before you make an offer and make a list of the costs you would expect to get the boat to the way you will want it. You will end up knowing how much money you will have in the boat after the purchase and upgrades are complete. It takes a lot of objectivity to get an accurate number.

A survey won't lower the price unless there is something undisclosed or unseen, and you will need to fix those things anyway. Don't count on a survey to get a better deal.

Good luck, they look like they would be a fun boat to sail.
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Old 07-13-2006
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There's also the situation that the guy's wife says "Sell the boat." and he puts it on the market at five times what it's worth. He then gets to tell his wife "I'm trying to sell the boat, but no takers." J/Boats cruising versions are generally regarded as well-engineered and well-built. They sail well, and there are also not a lot of them. These factors tend to make them pricey, despite their apparent simplicity of design. The J/boat racers have been raced, usually hard, and though also well-built, will look more tired. There are more racer J/boats around. These factors tend to make them relatively less expensive. You pays your money and you makes your choices. If you like the 37c enough, increase your offer and see if you can't get a counter-offer from the seller. If you go up $5,000 and he only comes down $150, you'll see how much he wants to sell, and get the idea that the selling price is pretty firm. If you go up $2000 and he comes down $2000, you may expect to meet in the middle. It's a balancing act that depends upon how much you're willing to spend and how little he's willing to accept. I've seen boats that didn't sell because there was oil spattered from a well-lubricated driveshaft, and the owner wouldn't budge on his price, and others that went through, but that dropped their price by $5,0000 because of a rotted main bulkhead the seller wasn't aware of. You never know.
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Old 07-13-2006
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You need to figure out what your budget is and stay within it. Remember, you'll most likely need to to spend another big lump of money outfitting/fixing the boat to meet your needs. So if your budget is $145K, your max boat cost is probably around $140, or less if you are conservative.

The O'day we bought was one of the cleaner boats we saw that was close to what we could afford. We really liked the boats layout and it had a reputation for being a decent sailer from what we could learn, however it was priced above our comfort range. Based on other identical models on the market and the prices of other similar boats I felt the asking price was in the correct range so, we kept looking.

However the owner needed to sell and later dropped his asking price so, I made discounted offer deducting the full cost of all the items I assumed I'd have to fix/replace, the owner countered, and I made a final offer which was accepted. After the survey, some more "small" items came up and another few hundered dollars came off the purchase price to correct them. As it turns out, every one of the small items became the worst case scenario, so so far the fixes cost about 3 times the discount negotiated with the seller, and two of the problems have been deferred until winter pull out, so the final cost has yet to be determined. The learning point is to assume the worst case for fixes. ie: If a steaming light is burned out, assume you'll have to pull the mast, install new wire and a new fixture. If replacing the bulb fixes it, you're money ahead.

If I hadn't negotiated a big discount up front, I'd really be hurting, but even with the unanticipated repair costs, I'm pretty confident I'll be able to recoup most of my costs when we're ready to move up to a bigger/newer/more capable boat in a few years.
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Old 07-13-2006
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One should always assume the worst case scenario. I have never seen a case where it cost less to fix up a boat than someone had planned. Some things like a burned out light up the mast you can just say FIX IT. If the surveyor recomends a new shroud, you should figure on replacing all the rigging, but you can't expect the seller to pay for the whole job because a boat with new rigging is worth more than a boat with 10 year old rigging.
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Old 07-13-2006
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Formula for an offer?

I don't think that any formula will prove to be a universal success, especially those that are based on the asking price. There is nothing that controls the formulation of the asking price; 85% of a ridiculously high asking price is still "wrong". Likewise, there is nothing to control what the owner thinks the boat is truly worth. I once dealt with a guy who insisted that the proper way to calculate the asking price was to take the BUC value and then add on the full price of what he paid for the new VHF, GPS, head, sails, etc. he had installed over the years of his ownership. Nutty? Sure, but its a free country. Bottom line: the boat is worth whatever someone will pay for it. An offer of 85% of the asking price shouldn't (in a sane world) insult anyone. If the offer was rejected, you can be sure that one of two things is true: the boat is worth more and will eventually sell for more; or the owner was wrong to reject your offer because that is about what the boat is worth and no one else will offer more. In the first instance, you always have the option of upping your offer. In the second instance, you can check back in a month and if the boat is still for sale, repeat your offer, this time hoping that life has beat some sense into the owner in the interim. Good luck.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2006
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While, I'd agree with midlifesailor that you need to reserve a part of your budget for upgrades, re-fits, and such..but I think that $5000 on a $145,000 boat is a bit low. I would estimate that you're really going to spend about 10-15% of the boat's price on re-fitting, repairing and upgrading.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #19  
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My spreadsheet, using my (guess) of .85 of 114000, has an offer of 97000. When I plug in survey costs, tax and tags, engine evaluation, insurance, mooring, a dodger, upgrading the electronics (the damn thing has a Loran), bottom paint, rod rig reheaded and a variety of small fixups, fresh charts, groceries and beer to bring her home, plus a fudge factor I'm in $41,400 in extra expenses. This is the minimum I can get by with. No new sails and other real goodies. At 138400 she's quite feasible. But the owner has demanded 107,500. At 149 shes simply not feasible.

Also she's been sitting on a mooring for 24 months for sale. The owner doesn't appear to be using her.

Is a neglected 17 year old boat really worth 107.5. I guess not to me or the marketplace.

I guess I'm dreaming. Again. I should set my sights smaller.
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I have read Don Casey's book (memorized is more like it) about Inspecting the Aging boat. I have visited her three times, looked in every locker and cubbyhole. I have no illusions about her condition. I'm planning on doing the labor intensive work myself (bottom paint and deck reseal) and getting good pro's to do the skill stuff (rod reheading, etc).

All I have to do is get by the purchase stuff. Duh you're thinking.

Is 97000 a good offer for a neglected 17 year old J-37c. Ie .85 of asking?
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