Boat Prices/Boat Values-Fiberglass - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 63 Old 07-16-2006
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Lyle, you've made your offer and it's been countered. The counter offer still isn't low enough for you. You either raise your offer (counter the counter), or change the terms of the deal some other way that makes it attractive to the owner, or you walk away and start looking for another boat.

The boat I bought was advertised at $12,000, but was being marketed as a racing boat, a niche where it was clearly obsolete, and the owner was "walking away from sailing" -- offers were invited. I offered $8,000 sight unseen (.66 of asking), contingent on my own inspection and a survey, and I backed this offer up with a 10% deposit and signed contract. The broker said the owner wanted to meet me in the middle at $10K, but the broker also confided that the owner would probably come down to $8K "on survey issues," although that was likely as low as he would go. My response was to stick with my $8K figure, but to say that the survey would be a buy or no buy decision point, NOT the basis for further price negotiation. The owner accepted this, the surveyor thought I was getting a good deal, and I bought the boat for $8K.

Good Luck,
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post #32 of 63 Old 07-17-2006 Thread Starter
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Thanx Catamount. Certainly food for thought. It's interesting that the owner took .66 of asking.

OK everyone let me try another tack.

What percentage of asking did you buy you're boat? and why?
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post #33 of 63 Old 07-17-2006 Thread Starter
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Perhaps I should make this a fresh thread.
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post #34 of 63 Old 07-17-2006
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Never calculated that before

I wound up paying 91.67% of the asking price. In reality, it was really 100%. The original deal included a dinghy that I did not need or want, so the owner knocked some money off of the price. I offered 90% of the discounted price, and he refused it, explaining that the discounted price was the absolute minimum he would take. Well, I had been looking for this particular model for some time, this particular boat was in great shape and it was reasonably priced, so I pulled the trigger. After we closed, the prior owner told me the full story behind the price: he was ambivalent about selling. He had been using the boat less and less but still wasn't sure if he wanted to sell. He and his wife agreed that if he got a certain price (the one I paid), it was worth it and they would sell; otherwise, they would keep the boat. I think I wound up being the only truly happy party in that deal.
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post #35 of 63 Old 07-18-2006
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ok, just to feed your spreadsheet here are results for the sailboats I've surveyed since jan. 1 of this year (asking vs actual sales price)

Catalina 34, 78 %
Freedom 33, 61%
Catalina 27 94%
Islander 30, 79%
J/24, 69%
Valiant 40, 85%
Columbia 36, 40%
J/105, 72%
Catalina 30, 80%
Columbia 36, 96%
Bene Oceanis 430, 71%
CSY 44, 91%
Morgan 41, 90%
Cheoy Lee Offshore 41 60%

Now, please put down your slide rule, close your excel spreadsheet, and forget your graph. You're trying to analyze a subjective value.

Lets say I own a Frogbobber 41. It was my first boat, I lost my virginity on her. I put 20k of repairs, upgrades and fluffernutters in her. I sailed her from Seattle to Cabo singlehanded in a hurricane.

Now, my 4th wife hates the boat. She says "her or the boat" (ok, I know I'd chose the boat). So, I call Sailor Bob, the broker, and say "put her up for sale at 120k." (the boat, not the wife) knowing that the boat is worth 50k. Billy Gotbux comes along and says, "I'll give you 50k for the boat." Nope. He comes back a month later and says "I'll give you 70k for the boat." Nope. He comes back a month later and says "I'll give you 119k for the boat".. Ok, Billy Gotbux is now the proud owner of a Frogbobber41. You see, Billy Gotbux saw a Frogbobber 41 25 years ago an fell in love with the look of it. Now, his life is complete. Me? I'm putting a down payment on an Hylas, and divorcing the
4th cow.
everyone is happy, the broker is shaking his head while he cashes his check.

ask vs offer vs sale price is SUBJECTIVE!

Yes, there are boat valuation guides, the operative word is GUIDE.

Take for example the CSY 44, it was priced right and just what the new owner wanted.

One of the Columbia 36's had set idle on the dock for over 5 years, and was an estate sale thing, and the other Columbia 36 was a boat that was used almost every weekend... from the figures I gave, can you tell which was which?
I also know of a Catalina 30 that will probably go for no more than 10 to 15% of asking price.

Almost every one of the responses you have recieved on this topic have said the same thing. I'm seeing a trend, perhaps I'll make a graph...
(feeling my post toasties this AM)

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
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post #36 of 63 Old 07-18-2006
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Good job cardiacpaul

Maybe this thread should be called - boat prices and the space time continuum.

Why do people sell boats? - Because they do not have the time, money or desire to keep it. Desire is the wild card here.

Why do people buy boats? - Because they either have too much money, too much time or they can't live without one.

Throw in the long term trends or cycles like recession, inflation, world stress, oil prices and ... and you will find used boat prices fluctuate wildly over the years. Generally if things are somewhat stable and you buy a boat at at reasonable price, keep it well maintained and upgraded and you will be able to sell it for a reasonable price. That price will be somewhat more than you paid for it but less than what you spent on upgrades.

I think a broker will try to list a boat for 10% more than they think it should sell for. But they will list it for whatever the seller wants and while the broker should have a better idea of what the boat is worth they are only guessing too. If the money or the idea of paying a fair price doesn't bother you then buy the boat you want. Otherwise do some more research to find other boats you might like.
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post #37 of 63 Old 07-18-2006
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Unfortunatly you have boxed yourself into this one boat and believe me the seller knows it and or does not care if he sells it! Cardiacpaul is correct in putting the slide rule down as the subjectivity of boats, sellers and buyers multiply the variables beyond applying a formula.
That being said, I would lean heavily in the direction of a premium price for a premium boat and just as heavily in the direction of RUNNING from a boat in poor condition. Generally speaking the savings on a boat in poor condition will be outstripped in a nano second to bring the boat to par. Good, honest Boat Guys are not cheap.
I see you have two choices.
1.) If you can live with a similar boat to this one the make your best offer and be prepared to walk away. Make sur the broker knows it and mean it.
2.) If you can't live without this particular boat model and don't want to wait for a sistership to come available; then buy the the boat and be done with it.

Either way 100 years from now, no-one will know the difference.

Pigslo
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post #38 of 63 Old 07-19-2006 Thread Starter
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Thanx CardiacPaul et al. I get the hint, prices are subjective. I think 97 is a fair price for a J-37c so I'm walking away. Again. In my extremely subjective, unskilled opinion an extra 10k is not worth it considering the money I need to spend to get her up to my standards.

This is getting discouraging.
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post #39 of 63 Old 07-19-2006
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You hit the nail on the head Lyle....it has to be what YOU consider a fair price. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks is a fair price. It's YOUR money.

John
Ontario 32 - Aria

Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


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post #40 of 63 Old 07-20-2006
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Wink Nett Economic Worth

This is what I go by in my business.
The worth of something(anything for sale) is what I am prepared to pay, right there and then, for something that I want or need...
The difference between WANT and NEED is a seperate story.
I have put in 30% of asking price for cars and I get them.
They want to sell and I am buying NOW>>>

There are a lot of boats for sale. Pick the design or attritubutes you NEED or WANT and go for it.
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