Swing Keel or Fixed Wing Keel? Catalina 22 or 25? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 61 Old 02-07-2010
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Powerdude, I had a Catalina 25, tall rig, fin keel, for > 20 years and had a great time with the boat, but it was a bear to trailer. It's heavy, as 25 foot boats go, and takes a fairly serious tow vehicle to pull it on the highway, as well as pull it up the boat ramp. When I towed it through mountains with my first tow vehicle, I had to stop periodically on the longest hills, pour a jug of water over the radiator to cool it, and then tow it the rest of the way up the hill.

The mast is heavy, and can't be raised by one person without using an A frame or similar gin pole system, and that takes time and work to set it up, and you will soon tire of doing all that work. It isn't the kind of work you will be willing to do, just to sail for a day or a weekend.

The fin keel has 4 foot draft, and you'll find that it's often hard to find boat ramps that can launch a boat that deep. Many boat ramps are used primarily by fishermen and small sailing dinghies, who's boats can be floated off the trailer in 3' of water. You'll need a minimum of about 5 feet of water at the ramp to float a fin keel C25 off the trailer. If you can't trailer launch it, you might have to pay a marina to hoist it for you, which is very expensive.

When I bought mine, I intended to trailer it to Lake Erie, Lake Michigan and Florida, but rarely trailered it anywhere. I kept it in the water in a slip throughout the summer, and only trailered it a few miles each year, to and from the dry storage lot.

As much as I liked my C 25, I don't think it's the best choice, considering your plan to trailer sail it.
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post #32 of 61 Old 02-07-2010
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Thanks for the advice.

Well, coming from powerboats (hence the name) that I've been around all my life, and being really used to trailering them to local lakes, I guess I just assumed you could do the same thing for sailboats.

Actually, I'm pretty tired of engines as a main source of propulsion, hence a newfound interest in sailboats.

Sorry for the old thread thing. I didnt see the date since I found it using Google after I registered. Didn't mean to beat a dead horse.

Problem around me is that there are some nice lakes, but most of the LARGER bodies of water, like Sea of Cortez or San Diego are a good 6-8 hours away. Since used boats generally require lots of TLC and time, I figured trailering woudl be the way to go. Most marinas seem to have rules prohibiting serious working on boats, and since a slip would be far away, it would be difficult to justify not only slip expenses but also paying somebody to do the work, since I'm a pretty handy guy.

Anyway...I guess I'll just continue to lurk around submarine style...
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post #33 of 61 Old 02-07-2010
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Sailormon has made a good point and one that I can say I have experienced and I agree with. Having a boat that is to large to trailer isn't much fun to rig, launch, retrieve, and de-rig in a day. This really deters you from doing short day trips to the local lake which are sometimes the most enjoyable.

If you are used to powerboats which you just pull up to the ramp, unstrap, then your off a sailboat is ALOT more work getting onto the water.

My advice would be to consider a smaller boat so that taking it in and out of the water would be easier and you would be able to sail easier and therefore would sail more often, which is what it's all about.

Myself, I am selling my 29' sailboat and downsizing to about a 17' sailboat maybe 23'. It seems I have learned the lesson that smaller is better, for me at least.

Small is beautiful, simple, cheap, and easy......

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post #34 of 61 Old 07-25-2010
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I've been dragging my Catalina 22 swing keel over the mountains from the desert to san diego almost ever other weekend for a year and a half; it's a two hour drive
I step the mast in about 20 minutes now. More often than not I'm alone and just ask somebody at the ramp for a hand.
I usually always stay at least one night on the boat because it's such a drive it would be a waste to put it up and take it right down again... although I have done that on occasion.
I'll be out on the boat for a week starting this thursday and I just got back from staying on it for a week two weeks ago.
The 22 is cramped but I figure it's like camping.
I'm looking at Catalina 25 swing keel on a trailer right now... it's MUCH roomier
I tow with either a gmc yukon V8 or a toyota tocoma V6
I'm sure the Yukon could tow the 25 and I'm pretty sure the tacoma would make short work of it also with its 6500 lb towing capacity

I really want a 40 foot boat but I don't want the slip fees and the bottom cleaning and all that. Plus I don't want to be stuck to one place
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post #35 of 61 Old 05-31-2011
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I have a Ensenada 20 and have been happy with it. Stepping the mast is one element of trialer sailing thats critical. IF your going to go down and sail for the day then coming home... I would get a smaller sail boat than a Catalina 22. Even with two people stepping the mast......there will be occasions that the second person cant help at the end of the day. Then its all on you to get it down, and get it home.... that can happen.
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post #36 of 61 Old 06-03-2011
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First Boat ?

Smaller is better always

You can also check out some of the Santana trailer boats from the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Might even look at a Santana 525 - inexpensive and only 2,600 lbs.

Here is a sailnet review of the popular Santana 2023

"LOA: 23' DRAFT: 18"/~4' DISP: 1750(dry)/3050(wet)
This is the easiest to trailer, rig (10 min.), and launch of any of the water ballast boats I looked at (this is directly proportional to how much it will be used). This is a boat for someone who will be putting in and taking out every outing.
The "C" is for cruising model, large cabin, pop top, galley, enclosed head. It is very large inside, given the above "tradeoffs". Roller furling jib AND Boom Roller furling/reefing main.
The only weakness that I have seen to date (1yr of sailing) is the water ballast makes for a tender boat (over a deep weighted keel). However, this is an issue with all water ballast boats. Bottom line: If you want to bring it home and put it in your garage every time out, it's either water ballast or centerboard, and water ballast does offer advantages over the centerboard for stability.
Overall satisfaction is very high. Although, I am not a racer, nor an offshore cruiser.
This boat is great for up to 3 people (comfortably) for a week or more in coastal and protected waters."
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post #37 of 61 Old 06-04-2011
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The Bear's 2 cents,
The Cal 22 is a good begining boat, small yes, but a couple can weekend overnite in reasonable comfort. Party barge it ain't! Using a jeep to tow it is pushing it but can be done, though to go up to lake Eire woud be about all I would be the furtherest I would trip it.
Any trailer boat is a small pain in the rear to rig before going out but thats the price you pay for no dock fees, movement to different lakes and having it in the backyard for maintenance and upgrades instead of down at the club X number of miles away.
The Cal offers several jibs and spiniker to learn from and can show a good turn of speed and thrills depending on your learning curve, and lots of differnt strings for kids and or guest to hang on to...under her captains supervision of course.
The question of swing or full keel is a matter of where you launch. A shallow
ramp can be a major problem with a full keel. A deep steep ramp can put your5jeep in a strain particularly when its wet and muddy. Yes, I know 4 wheel dive and all that I have also seen 4 wheel F250 super duty's slide butt first to the bed on a slick ramp. To me the variable depth of a swing keep in lakes is the advantage, running up on shore in your own secluded beach, slipping over the shallows to places deep keels will never go. In the Big lakes (Eire)
the Fixed keel offers a bit maybe of piece of mind but it's only in your mind. Both keel designs are designed for the limits of safe sailing of the craft.
Maintanince of the swing keel can be and often is more than a fixed keel but is usually cheaper and can be done in the back yard. Think repairing a cracked leading edge of a fixed keel that ran into a rock at speed, not the mention hull cracks from the impact, a swing keel will have bounced up into the case and scared you but problably nothing else that some refairing paste and a grinder can fix.
All in all it maybe apples and oranges or just winesaps or romas. See if you can find one of each and take them out for a few hours and see what you think, you're the Captain. It's your boat. Welcome to the wonderful world of rag boats.
O, by the way, you will need a bigger, heavyer tow car when you get 2'itis.

Soft breezes and smooth waters.
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post #38 of 61 Old 09-05-2011
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I can't tell if anyone answered this: what does the C22 draw with the keel up? can anyone comment on how they serve as a shoal draft vessel? Ie, as compared with a boat with a centerboard.
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post #39 of 61 Old 09-06-2011
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I believe the C22 has 2' draft with the keel up, and 5' with it down.
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post #40 of 61 Old 09-06-2011
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i have a Santana 23' and love it. it has a swing keel ( more like a centerboard ) and waterballast. the area where i sail can be extremely shallow so with board and rudder up i draw 12 inches. haulouts are a breeze but i keep it in a sleep seasonally. i over night as much as i can and last season spent about 5 days in the fall exploring some new spots. it has its drawbacks like headroom and being a relativly light boat ( 1100 lbs dry and 2600 lbs with the ballast filled) you need to reef and furl while heavier boats can handle the wind. overall it suits my needs and discussion has come up about bigger boats but for right now the pros outweigh the cons. my old boat ( cal 20 ) was a nightmare. that 600 lb lead keel was always having issues .
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