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  #21  
Old 02-06-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Ditto on Tak's comments...the Caliber keel layup is extraordinarlily rugged and I would take general comments on encapsulated keels with a grain of salt. It all depends on the manufacturer.
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2007
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Wanna Caliber 28?

There's a Caliber 28 in Annapolis for sale (not mine -- I also own a C28) with all new sails, standing and running rigging and the diesel fuel has been polished. About $16,000 and in the water; it has a little wood damage. Email me if you want me to put you in touch with the owner (a friend). I'm at marinewoodwork@gmail.com.

BTW, I bought mine as a storm salvage boat and it was one of the brothers' first models, built in 1984. It seemed worth buying because it appeared well built. I've nearly gutted it (soggy interior) and it is very well-built.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2007
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You can make the same arguments against bolted keels.
ultimatly it boils down to Don't run aground.
And yes I hve ran my boat aground at 6.5kts on hard sand and no I didnt break,puncture, crack or other wise hurt anything other than my pride.
I don't think they do the concrete any more.
Matt

You aint been around till you've been aground
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Caliber 40LRC

All boats are sinking it's just a matter of how fast.

Last edited by soul searcher; 02-07-2007 at 06:29 PM.
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  #24  
Old 02-11-2007
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Last year I topped off my tanks just before leaving Dinner Key in Biscayne Bay. I basically drove up wind to Puerto Rico (1100 miles down island) where I spent the summer poking around the South coast of the island shopping for a place to refill the tanks as well as avoid any hurricanes. In between I never seriously thought about diesel. I did loan my one jerry jug to some friends while in the Turks so they could do their jerry jugging refueling thing. They returned it full. Other than that it was smooth sailing all the way, algae was never a problem in my filters.
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  #25  
Old 02-11-2007
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Full Keel vs. Fin Keel

A point often overlooked with regard to keel design is that the shape of the keel affects the probability of impact damage.

While I can't argue the fact that a fin keel with a lead bulb on the end is great for stability and performance, the shape of a fin keel lends itself to the possibility of greater damage on impact. Picture a fin keel with a vertical leading edge hitting a shallow coral head at 7 knots. Now picture the sloped leading edge of an encapsulated or bolted on full keel design hitting the same object at the same speed. I had a very clear image of this in my head while carefully traversing the Caicos Bank under sail.

Either way, the result isn't pretty or nice to think about, but the damage to the keel with a tapered profile is nearly always going to be less and in some cases much less. Some will argue that the softer lead bolt-on keel will absorb some impact energy as the material deforms and that is true. However, the stress to the keel bolts on impact is a dynamic load created by the bending moment on the keel assembly at the time of impact. The bolts and the hull need to be designed and built to accomodate that stress. Are they?

Cheers,
Dan
S/V Eventyr
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2007
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One Person's Opinion

Hal Roth, a cruising journalist, who has cruised 200,000 miles and written over 400 magazine articles said in a recent book (one of ten that he’s written), “builders use encapsulated ballast for only one reason: it’s cheaper.” He goes on to thoroughly explain the dangers of internal ballast when experiencing serious groundings.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Right...Roth is a great sailor and is educated as a journalist and photographer. He is not a marine architect...he just has opinions like the rest of us. When I want to KNOW about boat construction, I'd rather listen to some experts before making up my own mind. Some of the finest boats and most expensive have built with encapsulated keels...others with bolt ons. When the experts choose differnt methods when cost is no object my inclination is to say...it don't matter (unless it is done poorly either way)!
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2009
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FWIW, Shannon builds all their boats with encapsulated keels and I don't imagine it's on account of the cost savings.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2009
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Gozzards are very similar to Shannons in build and design. Here is a quote from their website concerning ballast:

"We believe the real advantage of an internal ballast system is that it is far more cost efficient and production friendly than a correctly engineered and manufactured external lead keel. And we know this well... recently, the cost of casting a modern external lead keel has increased to the point where it is at a cost disadvantage, where it might not make economic sense for some customers. The need to stay competitive has meant we are now offering our boats with either the encapsulated ballast or the optional upgraded fully external lead shoe. But there are differences in the two systems and as opposed to using marketing to sell one system over the other, here are some of the facts..."

Ronbo
Gozzard Yachts - About Our Boats
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2009
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I'm a fairly new owner of a year 2000 Caliber 40. I find it sails well in the typically medium to strong conditions we have where I am. It's comfortable and fun for live-aboard. Its an LRC, one thing I don't like is the lack of access to below the floors. The big fuel and water tanks result in there being virtually no accessible bilges.
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