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  #11  
Old 08-11-2006
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Hey JEdwards...forget the cheap plastic boats for your purposes. There's lots more suitable boats for cruising out there and one's you'll fit in too!
Like this one<>...once you look at something like this which is IN your budget area...you won't need anyone to explain what an offshore boat is!
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2006
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Please help me choose a boat

Ha! Didn't consider the failing one head at sea. Another interesting point.

Someone threw Valiant into the mix. Thoughts?

Per the cat question, I have looked into them, but I prefer the monohull. I completely understand their appeal, but I just don't get excited when I look at them. They have a lot to offer; just for whatever reason I'm more drawn to the monos.
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Cap'Nero...you're not missing anything! Two heads are WAY better than one assuming they both get used.
Especially when you have to GO and one is broken! Especially when you have company aboard. Especialy when you need parts for one that aren't handy locally or in the standard rebuild kit. Especially when the seas are rough and one head gives a more comfortable ride!
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Please help, thus far...

2 votes for Tayana, one liked Tartan and one for Valiant.

I'm no less confused.

That said, this being my first day, you are all being very cool. I appreciate it.
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Old 08-11-2006
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hot spares

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Cap'Nero...you're not missing anything! Two heads are WAY better than one assuming they both get used.
Especially when you have to GO and one is broken! Especially when you have company aboard. Especialy when you need parts for one that aren't handy locally or in the standard rebuild kit. Especially when the seas are rough and one head gives a more comfortable ride!
Actually I recently decided to add a spare head pump assembly to our cruising spares. For about $100 I can pick up another head pump and then I know I can do a quick pump swap instead of having to repair one underway.
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  #16  
Old 08-11-2006
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You asked for blunt. A lot of people disagree with me, but here goes:

1) Most of the boats sold for going around the world never get much further than the first buoy. Are you REALLY going to circumnavigate? Better go get in a really crappy storm offshore where you think you are going to die before you get serious about talking about going around the world where there is no turning around, no VHF, no coast guard to one to come to the rescue... just you and your life raft, and HUGE seas. Truth is, any boat can circumnavigate. Wait till you see the crap people sail on out there!! Some are just built heavier, with more storage (fuel, sail, water, etc), and are stiffer. The trade off is space and comfort down below... and they are also typically more expnsive to build. As Americans, we tend to overcompensate for our sailing ability (or lack of) with lots of instruments, and systems, and boats that are "made to go around the world". That being said, many of those boats really are built better. Valiant is a great one. I like the old Bristols. Pacific Seacraft makes a reasonable one too. There are many others. But they are SMALL down below. SMALL!!!! You will spend 95% of your time on the hook and 5% of your time on the go. Buy a boat for the 95% versus the 5%... unless you are heading off across the Pacific right now.

2) It takes a very skilled sailor to siglehand... especially if you are thinking about heading across the big pond. If you are willing to part with that kind of money, buy a smaller boat (Catalina, Beneteau, Jeaunea), and after you have done all the N AMerican and S AMerican and Bahamas and Carrib, etc sailing you can, pay a moving service like DockWise to ship your boat across to Aulstralia. You will save the heartache of the seas (and live to tell about it), and you have a great boat that is comfortable down below to see the sights. There are aspect to being offshore that are deeply rewarding on a spiritual level... but that is about it. It is not "fun"... at least to me... but I have a family I have to watch out for and don't care for staring at 20 foot seas breaking five feet behind me. I have done it because I had to do it. I don't "hate it"... but it is more of a means to an end.

3) You don't need an X, or a Swan, or similair. Awesome boat, but it is a racer. You are not racing, and unless you are a pretty good sailor, you probably would not tell the difference anyway for a while.

4) In the areas you have discussed sailing, I would push you toward a Catalina. Solid boat. Inexpensive. Good coastal cruiser with occasional punch offshore. They are made in California and Florida so parts are easily accessible. They hold their value very well. And NO, I am not a Catalina dealer, but as you can tell, they have a very faithful following and are widely regarded in the sailing community as a well built production boat. Beneteau and Jeaneau are good production boats too, but think about parts accessibility, storage, and system access.

5) Better see what you can get approved for. General rule of thumb: 20% down, minimum. More if you have any shady credit. You need about 12-24 months living expenses with the boat in the bank after that. You total outgo (all your debt, plus boat payment, plus insurance, plus slip) cannot exceed 37%... 40ish with some brokers. If you have anything of a shady past with credit, better look at this being a lot stricter. Call 1st commercial credit in Florida. They are a yacht mortgage broker. I have had good experiences with them. Essex is good too. If you cannot find the numbers, PM me and I will help. I know them both very well.

Hope this helps. Don't get scared, in the end it is all worth it... a million times over. I cannot imagine a life without a boat.
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Old 08-11-2006
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captnnero-

It depends on the exact layout of the boat...but on many boats, one of the heads will have a much longer run to the holding tank, and the hose that makes that longer run is much more susceptible to permeation, leaks, and other problems. Also, if the two heads are plumbed wrong, a problem in one can often take out both heads, by constricting or blocking the line to the holding tank.

Yes, having two heads on-board can give you the possibility of a backup, when one fails—but the system has to be properly designed to allow that...and in many production boats it is not. Also, having the second head might lead you to the false sense of security that you've got a backup, which may or may not be true.

It also depends on what actual marine head unit is installed. Some of the less expensive units are far less reliable than more expensive units.




A few other things for the OP to consider.

Average annual maintenance for a boat is usually about 10% of the price, but is generally a bit lower during the first three to five years of use.

Commissioning a boat, especially for liveaboard use, will generally cost an additional $10,000-25,000. This includes purchasing things for the boat that are required by law, but not provided by the boat manufacturer, like PFDs, fire extinguishers, fenders, etc. It also includes modifications, upgrades and customization to the boat to make it work for your particular needs. I've never seen a boat that didn't have something that needed to be added, modified or changed when a new owner took it over, regardless of whether it was new or used. This money also covers things like adding cockpit cushions, biminis, dodgers, additional ventilation, dishes, silverware, etc.
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  #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captnnero
Actually I recently decided to add a spare head pump assembly to our cruising spares. For about $100 I can pick up another head pump and then I know I can do a quick pump swap instead of having to repair one underway.
Not a bad idea...now get enough hose and a Y-valve assembly to replace those and you're all set unless you crack the bowl!
BTW...if you ever can't pump the handle...it means the line is clogged AND pressurized! Ask me how I know!!!
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  #19  
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Please help - cont.

Cruisingdad,

Thanks for the bluntness.

That's another vote for Valiant. So, Valiant and Tayana seem to be running close for my purposes, and I still do like the Tartan.

My credit right now is... we won't even go there, but I make very good money now (that wasn't always the case, thus the credit), so I'll need more in reserves. Thanks for the heads-up.

I am single with no kids, so it's just me. Very hard for most people to grasp, especially those with a family, but it's the risk of not making it that makes me want to. Not to say I want to sink, but it wouldn't stop me from going. I'm not in this for the sight-seeing -- I'm in it because I love the sea (more than the shore), the solitude, and for the challenge. I'm not about cruising the shore with a nice bottle of Pinot and some fine cheeses. That's not to put those people down. I completely understand the appeal of that and it's beautiful on some days. If anyone's inviting, I prefer stilton. For me, I'd rather get myself in a bit of trouble, but I'd like my boat to preferably stay in one piece in the process.
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  #20  
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Heads

Well, I am going to totally part company with my fellows again: Why on earth would you want two heads?

I have 2 heads now, but that is only because I have 2 kids and do not like little mermaid toothpaste. Single head boats have heads that are typically more comfortable that 2 head boats and have more room in all of the other areas, salon included.

Also, a word of warning: Buy the smallest boat you can comfortably sail not the largest boat you can afford. Smaller is better, especially for a single.

PS Tayana is a good boat too.
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