Boat Buying Comments

[bugginoff]

I am shopping for a replacement boat and would like to benefit from the experience and knowledge of the members of this forum.

My sailing experience is coastal, deep water, (Atlantic) within 150 miles of home, so far max 20 miles from shore, as much single-handing as I can with several 3 - 4 person trips each year. This will continue and within 2 years I will be taking 4-6 months off every 2nd year.

I want to be comfortable the new boat will handle off shore passages safely. My budget at this poing is flexible but max is about $125-150k.

So… the usual question, what boat?

I am looking first for a structurally solid hull and rig, deep keel, sloop rig, no main furling, no “heavy” cruisers, I can add sails and other gear over the next couple years as necessary.
-Favoring late 80’s Sabre 38.
-Options include First 38s5, First 40.5, C&C 40.
-I also see a couple of Hanse 371 listed, what is the story on Hanse quality, I like the fractional rig and self-tending jib although this might make the main rather large.

Appreciate your comments, pro or con or other options.

Thanks
Bug

[camaraderie]

How about Pearson 424's or Passport 40's or a Caliber40. All are medium displacement proven passagemakers in your price range. You seem to be leaning a bit more to speed rather than comfort...but these boats might be worth a look as good compromises between the extremes. The Caliber in particular has excellent tankage for longer offshore passages and is well thought out for extended cruising IMHO but it probably will get you there a day later than the Sabre!

[Jeff_H]

Cam

You and I would severly disagree on the definition of 'medium displacement cruisers'. At best I would call all of those moderately heavy to heavy cruisers. Anything with an SA/D over 200 is really a heavy cruiser, with most of the boats on Bug's list at least being what I would call medium displacement.

Given his predominantly coastal cruising agenda, and goals towards ease of single-handing, I would think that with the exception of the Hanse and perhaps the 385, these are all boats that mostly a little bigger and harder to handle than I would recommend. I would especially scratch the C&C 40 which I have found to be a poor choice as a coastal or offeshore short-hander. Still Bug's choices will be easier to handle than the Pearson 424's or Passport 40's or a Caliber40, especially for the kinds of sailing being proposed.

One quick thought would be a Diva 39. I'll throw out some other options when I have a bit more time to think about it.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[Gene T]

We might have a lot in common in which boats we like. To me anything over about 16,ooo lbs is a lot of boat to handle for day sailing. Anything under 37 feet is a bit small for spending much time on. I looked at a 38s5 recently really hoping I would like it. But I found so many things about it that were "why did they do it that way?" or "that would bother me". Just a few of these things would have been OK, there were so many of them I just felt dissatisfied. Looked like a nice sailing boat however and it was well built. Take a look at a Jeanneau Sun Fast 37 if you get a chance. Nice size, well built and a great sailing boat. For older boats you might look at a Newport 41. I haven't looked at a Beneteau 405 yet. I looked at a new Hanse 370, nice boat in a lot of ways but had a few odd things. The hardware in general is weak, some things look like afterthoughts, like the windlass and anchor roller. Galvanized backing plates for the keel bolts. I saw a report of a lost keel on a 371 that appeared to be a manufacturing problem. I'll be interested in what you look at and your impressions.

[Gene T]

I am also thinking you might look at a C&C 37+, sometimes refered to as a 37/40 Plus.

[bugginoff]

Hi
Had originally considered the heavier end of the range but I judged them too heavy for single-handing and maybe too much work for a daysail? The Passports are certainly nice boats.

Anyone have any comments on the Hanse. I am told they have "oversize" rigging but no numbers yet on wire size, etc., the winches look light, can't get a keel or bulb weight. Doesn't this look like a lightweight for 37 ft? Do they accomplish this with thinner hulls and decks or "hi-tech" materials?

Have looked at C&C 37 but not the /40 so will try to find info on them.

Thanks for your help so far?

[Jeff_H]

I have spent a little time on a 37 foot Hanse, including crawling round in the lockers installing a set of cleats and backing blocks in preparation for Hurricane Isabelle. What I saw looked to be very high quality workmanship. The laminate looked great, uniformly saturated and with uniformly narrow interstitual resin lines. The boats do have some creative thinking that may or may not appeal to everyone but they seem to be well thought through.

I like their modern hull and foils coupled with their more traditional visual character. Performance is quite reasonable but not at the level of the boats intended to be more race oriented such as the Beneteau First 36.7 or 40.7. (By the way the Bene 405 is a very different boat than the others being kicked around and is not one that I am fond of.) Their rating on the Chesapeake seems like a real gift, but I have not tried to race the Hanse yet.

I found the winches up to the task, (remember these are fractional rigs and so sheet loads are much smaller). I don't like the specifiocs of the cabin top mounted mainsheet, which restricts sail shaping or the ability to make quick adjustements. I'd probably order one with the traveller in the cockpit but that may just be me. The mainsail is not overly large (frankly quite small when compared to my 38 foot, 5000 lb lighter, fractional rigged boat), which makes the boat easy to handle but as a result, you will want a genoa for a predomently light air venue.

Jeff

[sailingdog]

Jeff-

What do you think of the Bavarias? Particularly, the Bavaria 37. I have a friend looking at one as a bluewater cruiser/liveaboard for his soon to be retirement.

[Jeff_H]

I have not been impressed with the Bavarias. The ones that I crawled through a few years ago really did not look all that well constructed, The hardware looked undersized and the construction details were unimpressive. I found the designs uninspired and sort of clunky. At this last boat show I was aboard a new model that seemed to be a little better built than the boats that I had looked at more closely a few years back.

Anyway, in a general sense the Bavarias leave me underwelmed. Despite all of their hype to the contrary, I rank them somewhere around or below the Beneteau number series, neither of which I would never classify as bluewater cruisers.

Jeff

[sailingdog]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll pass it along. I have no experience with the Bavarias, and was curious. Also, last I checked, Bavaria was a land-locked province of Germany... so how did someone there get into making boats?