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-   -   Surveyors (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/22603-surveyors.html)

Rodz47 09-02-2006 11:16 AM

Surveyors
 
I am looking for a good surveyor in the Detroit, MI - Toledo,OH area. Can anybody recommend one? I know associations and found their names but I would like to have one recommended.

sailingfool 09-02-2006 11:39 AM

"I am looking for a good surveyor .."
I'm on the East coast, so I can't give you a name, but I'll offer an opinion on identifying the best surveyors. On the last occasion I need one, I solicited recommendations at two area premium builder/brokers and asked who they thought were the "best". Interestingly they both gave me the same two names.

I spoke with the recommended surveyors. Both were booking three to four weeks out. They only booked in full days. They both had upcoming assignments taking them to Europe to survey NEW 100'+ boats.

Because I was impatient to get the deal done, I didn't want to wait, so I used someone recommended by a friend. He was available the next week.

Subsequent repairs missed by his survey cost me $10-15,000. I should have waited the extra weeks.

So look for a surveyor who is really busy, does expensive boats and costs a lot...Just my opinion.

Rodz47 09-02-2006 12:19 PM

Thanks SF. I had at least one name but it comes from a seller's broker. He seems to me very honest but I read so many opinions on this forum against using such recommendation that I would be uneasy with him. The boat is not very expensive because it is older one (C&C 78) but it may have hidden deficiencies.
Can you tell me what was missed on your boat? I will pay attention to this.

sailingfool 09-02-2006 07:47 PM

What model - I owned a '77 C&C 30 and raced against all the other models made during that period ( at one point it seemed like C&C was the club builder).

Missed items included leaking fuel tank, moisture in various cored panels, worn radial drive, and a variety of engine issues, although he did not officially survey the engine. We relied on the yard manager and a mechanic to do a in the water shakedown test. They (like the surveyor) missed the slow starting indicative of the low commpression that lead to a subsequent engine rebuild that the seller should have eaten..

catamount 09-02-2006 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodz47
I had at least one name but it comes from a seller's broker. He seems to me very honest but I read so many opinions on this forum against using such recommendation that I would be uneasy with him.

Besides brokers, the other people who come in contact with surveyors a fair bit are probably boatyard service managers -- you might check with a few boatyards (especially ones not involved in the deal) as to who they might recommend (especially to survey their own boat!).

How do you know whether you can trust these recommendations? Walk the docks and ask sailors about the reputations of the various yards. Or contact local sailing clubs and yacht clubs to see if they can tell you which yard most of their members use, or put you in touch with some of their members.

If the name you have from the broker gets a couiple of other independent recommendations, then he (or she) is probably OK.

Regards,

Tim

Rodz47 09-03-2006 07:27 PM

Thanks guys. It will be very difficult to walk from marina to marina as I am living 300miles away and there are very few marinas in that area. Anyway, I will make a couple of calls.
The model is C&C34. I looked at her thoroughly as it is on the dry and it seems to be in good shape. I noticed some rotten core on the edges of cockpit openings but ... it is 30 years old. There are no "spider" cracks that I saw on other boats.
I noticed ssomething that looks like leak on the inside of the hull. How common is leaking between hull and deck on this model? and how difficult is to fix it?

ebs001 09-03-2006 07:56 PM

I used Jack Morman when I bought my boat in Detroit,. I found him to be very thorough and knowledgeable about sailboats. He works for
ichael Thompson and Associates. Phone number 313-924-9444. If you haven't already I also recommend you get a broker to act on your behalf. That cost you nothing, the seller pays the brokerage fee. I have a name for you if you wish. Let me know.

Rodz47 09-03-2006 08:53 PM

bes001 .... you WON'T believe .... this is the name the broker gave me. Since this is long weekend I hope I get another recommendation for this fellow. I am going to call him onTuesday. As for a broker, I think it is too late because I agree on the price already but I have not signed any paper yet. Is it advisable to have own broker at this stage? What would be his role??

ebs001 09-04-2006 08:29 AM

I think it's always advisable to use a broker. He acts the same way a realestate broker protecting your interest as well as providing a knowledge base that goes beyond what a normal buyer would know. If you haven't signed any papers yet a broker can advise you on conditions you should include in your offer to ensure you don't get shafted. He also know the fair market value of the boat. As I said before,as long as you are buying a brokerage boat, it costs you nothing and it costs the seller no more. It's free for you so why not take advantage of it. If it's a private deal then it will cost, however.

sailingfool 09-04-2006 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebs001
I think it's always advisable to use a broker. He acts the same way a realestate broker protecting your interest as well as providing a knowledge base that goes beyond what a normal buyer would know. If you haven't signed any papers yet a broker can advise you on conditions you should include in your offer to ensure you don't get shafted. He also know the fair market value of the boat. As I said before,as long as you are buying a brokerage boat, it costs you nothing and it costs the seller no more. It's free for you so why not take advantage of it. If it's a private deal then it will cost, however.

While I agree 100% that it makes sense to work with a trusted broker during the boat search process who can advise you and do your footwork, I'm not sure that broker is really "your" broker, and it would be very akward to bring another broker into an in-process sale. If I were the listing broker, I'd tell you to get lost at that point - you are asking him to split the selling fee with someone who has not contributed to the sale. I am not aware of yacht brokers who contract as "buyers' brokers - not that it may not happen, I just haven't seen it myself. Usually when you work with "your" broker who links you to a listing broker, both brokers are paid by the seller, and strictly speaking, are the sellers' representatives. If you want advice about the purchase agreement, take the standard agreement have have a lawyer review and adjust (http://www.oceanmarinellc.com/broker...0and%20sale%22) ,

As to the C&C 34, you should understand that this model represented C&Cs' first use of a cored hull, and based on the damage that can occur from sriking a hard object (and not necessarily striking that object hard...) they were obviusly not far up the learing curve. I knew the owner of one of the first 34s, when he pulled the boat after the first season, cracks at the front and back of the hull dripped for weeks due to water absorbed by the hull from hitting a rock. Damage to the keel itself was neglible. Racing out of Boston habor, hitting rocks was a common occurance and with the original C&Cs was never a cause for concern. FWIW the C&C 35 mark II is a much better boat in every regard, for my last purchase I looked for one for a year before I went elsewhwere.


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