Bruce Roberts Designs

[Shack]

Found a 60' design I think I like from Bruce Roberts.

I'd like to hear what the avid members our forum have on this designer and his boats. Opinions or experiences?

Want to brag about your boat?

[Sasha_V]

Floating housebricks of dubious integrity.

There are cheaper ways of getting a better boat.

[Shack]

Cool,
Can you elaborate? I want to know why.
My dream boat is a steel hull schooner or ketch with lots of room. Roberts has the designs that seem to fit. What don't you like about those boats (Spay?)

How about Dudly Dix? or Ted Brewer?
Am I missing any other good designers of steel boats?

[paulk]

Bruce Roberts seems to have a good marketing department, insofar as sending out plans. I was once on their mailing list, too. The pleasant-sounding copy describes what the boat is intended for, but fails to mention how long the design has been around or how well it actually performs. Some old designs are classics, but not all of them. Pictures of vessels under way are included, with some testimonials from Papua New Guinea or some such place. The likely builder-owner, after spending untold years putting his bathtub together, isn't likely to be too critical of his "baby", even if it took him months to make a trip others do in weeks. The discounted prices that may make used Roberts designs attractive at first glance are an indication that the market is wary of homebuilt boats of unknown quality that, though they may float, don't necessarily move forward easily or handle well. There are enough used boats of known construction quality and known sailing characteristics that taking a risk with a Roberts design (which may have been modified from the plans by the builder, to boot) probabaly isn't worth it.

[Shack]

Hmm OK,
Outside ofthis thread I am not hearing any accolades about Roberts boats.

How about Dudley Dix? or Ted Brewer?
Am I missing any other good designers of steel boats?

These guys seem to be in the same business. I don't know about their reputations or any thrid party details about their boats either.

[Jeff_H]

At some level, I agree with the comments above. Bruce Roberts has some reasonably nice design, but he also has quite a few worse than mediocre designs in his catalog. His Spray series, while quite popular, produces designs which would not be very appealing to sailors who care how well a boat sails.

I like most of Dudley Dix's work. He seems to have a good sense of proportion and seems to do the kind of careful engineering and detailing that produces good boats. In the 60 foot range I really like his Dix 64 which (except for its extreme shoal draft for a boat this size) is a very moderate and seemingly well thought through design. His 65 foot Liberte' design sails out of Annapolis, and so I see her underway quite often. I am less impressed with that design.

Ted Brewer is an extremely respected designer of traditional cruising boats. My father owns one his 42 foot FRP production boats and it has been an excellent boat. I am not familiar with his bigger designs.

Tom Colvin is a guy who thinks out of the box. He has designed a wide range of traditionally based metal boats. While all kinds of grand claims have been made for these boats, I think that in reality, these are good solid boats that seem well suited to the non-performance oriented distance cruiser.

I also like the work of Yves Tanton who is a very ingenious designer and who seems to produce very clever designs. The only set of his drawings that I have seen was somewhat incomplete but I don't know whether that reflects that specific owner's objectives or Mr. Tanton's norm.

Van der Stadt is extremely respected for their very high quality steel boat designs. I am more familiar with their midsized modern designs and their 35 to 42 foot older designs, but I have known owners of their larger designs who have raved about their boats.

I worked for the late Charlie Wittholz who had a great eye and was a very conscientious designer. Last I heard, his family was still selling his designs. I worked on a number of his steel designs and I think that watching him work, he was someone who genuinely understood what made a boat work and tried very hard to produce good designs.

If you were going to build a boat this large, I seriously want to suggest that you consider a custom design, a design that works for your specific needs and goals. Only you know what you want out of a boat, and frankly if you are going through the trouble to custom build a boat, then the small incremental cost of doing a custom design only makes sense. If I were going to do a custom design, I would strongly suggest that you contact Antonio (Tony) Dias (Antonio Dias Design 171 Cedar Island Road,Narragansett, RI, 02882). I have known Tony for may years and I really love his work. His designs are beautiful to look at, but more importantly extremely well thought through and carefully crafted.

I do want to touch on the premise of this thread. "My dream boat is a steel hull schooner or ketch with lots of room. Roberts has the designs that seem to fit." and at the heart of it, it sounds like you want a steel 60 footer with an antiquated rig. I think that it would be easier to answer your question about designers of steel boats, if we understood what you are trying to accomplish with this boat. Designers, like the people who buy their designs, have strong design personalities that inform the thousands of design decisions that must be made in the course of producing a design.

In other words,
Do you plan to build this boat yourself, or have a yard build it, or buy a used boat?
What do you plan to do with this boat? (i.e. live-aboard, distance cruise, charter)
Where do you plan to sail this boat?
How experienced are you as a sailor or boat builder?
This is an enormous boat that will take a large crew to handle safely. What is your goal for a boat this big?
Why are you focusing on Steel?

And so on....
Jeff

[Sasha_V]

I would add Steve Dashew's designs to that list for a modern boat in that size range and constructed of aluminium or steel.



Big, fast, comfortable ketches.

I think that building a 60 foot boat fomr the ground up that is not custom made exactly to your specs is like throwing away a million dollars to avoid spending 20,000.
If you are talking about finding existing hulls, then you will find the Roberts stuff to be all over the place in terms of construction quality and "personalised" specs...many of which do not work because they were thought up by the amatuer guy welding the thing together in his backyard rather then someone that has a clue.

Sasha

[camaraderie]

Shack...I don't particularly like the Roberts designs either...Check out Van de Stadt designs...they design boats even Jeff H and I can agree to like!

[sailingdog]

I'd also mention that Van de Stadt also designs some very good aluminum boats too. Going cheap on a boat of that size seems to be a waste of money IMHO.

It might help to say what kind of sailing you intend on doing, as well as what your budget is for the boat. The upkeep on a 60' steel boat is going to be fairly considerable, especially if you intend on keeping it in a marina for any period of time.

[Shack]

Wow - I feeel like I'm in a therapist's office. It all started when I was a child . . .

The Boat: I envision a 5 year plan to get this hull into the water. Looking at a live-aboard concept with a trade area to serve as a workshop or cargo hold. Must be cable of open water passage making with a small crew or enough technology to support the basic team of two. Although presently I only see western Atlantic and Caribbean as a sailing area. I also can see it lashed to a pier or anchorage for no more than 3-6 months at the far end, but sailing weekly on the short end. This has a lot speculation to it, and I hate speculation. I wouldn't mind building her myself, both my wife and I are technically savy with just enough artisan to have some flair. I wouldn't mind watching someone do it for me, either. It all depends . . .

Me: Relative to most on this net - I would put myself in the novice category as far as sailing goes. So, I'm obviously starting with the familiar CWR method (crawl-walk-run) into a live aboard situation. We have no kids - I have a pension plan that includes Health care for life - and I can retire at 42 if I should choose to do so. I have a lot more aeronautical that nautical experience. For years, I've commanded a 40 year old 150,000 lbs aircraft with a crew of 5 to 7 men around the world from Thailand to Tinian, and Bahrain to Bermuda. I'm finding the similarities between the two modes of transportation helpful in regards to the larger contexts of navigation, weather, physics, technical issues and crew management. But the simliarities all stop there. I'm cautious and cynical enough to understand that the devil is in the details, and the details are what kills the fun and can often kill people. I'm sort of . . . the wild rover, but no, never, no more . . .

I like to have a plan. Plans are necessary to begin any journey, but I find that I'm rarely roped to them. Plans are for planning, execution is what happens when reality sets in. "Never fall in love with a plan. She'll only break your heart."

Hell, when I was a kid . . . I wanted to be truck driver or a soldier. Who'd a thunk I'd be doing both but in an airplane instead.

So, there's my profile - NOW where's my boat??