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otaga05 10-04-2006 03:37 PM

NADA values vs asking price how much is it really worth?

hellosailor 10-04-2006 03:46 PM

Last I heard, NADA was a retail price book, i.e. It quotes what a dealer would stick on the boat in a display lot, not the bargained price it sold for.

The BUC Book is supposed to list actual selling prices only, and you can go to their web site to get a quote on a boat's BUC vlaue for free. Somewhere in between the two, is reality.

The bottom line of course is to hand the broker a check, along with your offer, and see if the buyer accepts or rejects it. Unless the buyer has said "Don't bother to call me for under $#####" he's obligated to ask the seller if they'll take it.

Gene T 10-04-2006 03:56 PM

I don't put much stock in these boat values, some are based on a simple depreciation schedule. Even if selling prices are reported it is difficult to report condition and equipment on sold boats. The sample of sold boats is too small to be meaningful. But it is also just a possible the boat is grossly over priced. While a surveyor is necessary for checking out the boat during the purchase process, the surveyor can't tell you what the boat is worth. So, you are in a tight spot. You need to decide if the boat is worth it or not. I usually try to put together a spread sheet adding or subtracting value based on what I am looking for in a boat. A new engine could be worth $10k to me, new sails $2k - $5k, electronics $?. Start listing all the things you think the boat needs. Compare this boat with others you have looked at and offer accordingly. But if you are convinced this is the boat you want then the actual price is much less important.

cardiacpaul 10-04-2006 04:03 PM

short answer...


its not the surveyors primary or secondary job to put a "value" on a boat.
The surveyor will inspect the craft for condition and "seaworthyness" (did I just write "seaworthyness"?)

Most of the guide values are not worth the internet time to do. You can't plug in the various factors to get a good determination. I've seen them very high, and also, very low.

As an aside, a surveyor may include sale prices of other boats in the same catagory, but, IMHO, these are worthless. The "selling price" of a boat has many determining factors, equipment level, condition, economic constraints all must be taken into account...

I can see it now... fred wants a frogbobber 41 for 139k, the surveyor says, "its worth about 135k", fred cuts a check... 3 months later, while fred and his comely wife matilda are sharing a merlot at the dock with the neighbors, fred is told "you could have got that boat for 70k, because the owner was in serious financial trouble, and their kid used it as a floating meth lab"

hey, you only wanted the surveyor to "take a quick look".

Do your own research, ask around, spend some time looking... it will serve you well.

hellosailor 10-04-2006 05:18 PM

"Even if selling prices are reported it is difficult to report condition and equipment on sold boats." BUC does describe value expressly, and they indicate the value of boats and the adjustment for conditions. If, of course, you believe that they are reporting actual sale values. There's always been some speculation about that.

The sparsity of resales is something else again. If you are looking for a Rarity47.5 and there were only two sold in the past five years...yeah, you're gonna pay what the seller asks. That's the nature of market pricing.

There are plenty of boats that sit unsold for more than a year, two years, because the seller has an unreal belief in what the boat is worth. And the broker (often getting paid yard rent anyway) isn't always anxious to disillusion them.

I also follow the concept that you take a boat in whatever shape it is in, add whatever parts/time/labor it would need to put it in Bristol condition, and then subtract that from the top used boat value to get what it is worth. "Well it only needs a paint job" Yeah, sure, but if a paint job costs $25,000...that should affect value, no matter how willing I am to buy a dull chalky boat.<G>

Jotun 10-05-2006 03:37 PM

It's usually handy to look at or other boat sites. That way you can view the range that the boat you are interested in is selling for, giving you an idea of what you might purchase it for.

SkipperJay 10-05-2006 07:27 PM

I think that both NADA and BUC Value can be helpful guides but neither one can give a definitive value on any particular boat given the multitude of factors which may influence price.
In addition to the above references, I would suggest that you also refer to Yacht World and Boats.Com and try to get a range of prices of boats similar to the one you are considering. See if the boat you are looking at falls within that range. Also, remember that local where the boat is being sold may likely have a big effect on price. Finally, keep in mind that extras such as electronics may be valuable additions but might not effect the price of the vessel proportionately.

Zanshin 10-06-2006 03:08 AM

What you really need is a buyer's broker. They have access to the juicy information from places such as where the actual selling price and not some inflated asking price is stored. Unfortunately for us mere mortals this information is restricted to business professionals.

PaulBl 10-09-2006 06:56 PM

Yachtworld listings are placed only by brokers. A broker therefore sat with a seller and set a price. It may be realistic or not. Not all sellers are realistic and some brokers will let a high price fly just to let the seller get some additional time then come around to lowering the price. A broker also can access the sold prices that the public can not see. They may encourage the seller in a direction. Not all sellers can be encouraged. Smart sellers sell their boats quickly for a good price.

There is no rule of thumb to prices you see advertised and what to offer. People that expect to sell their boat will set realistic prices. Do your own reasearch and you can use yachtworld to examine asking prices. If the boat is popular you'll find a common thread to the prices based on all the things you might consider important. Never offer more than you can afford.

It's OK to offer a lower price than asking, but with that comes negotiation. Negotiation is the point where both parties can agree. A hard but earnest negotiation may yield you the best price, but at that point you don't come back from the survey and demand every dime all over again. You set expectations. Personally I prefer to set my offer price and say I won't beat you up when the survey comes back unless it has serious issues. It's Ok to tell a seller you can't afford the asking price based on what you have researched and what you may need to do to the boat.

You can honstly negotiate a price without insulting the other side. Find out all you can before you sit down and preform some calculations and see really what the basis is for your asking price and the sellers offer price. Talk about it honestly. If I offer a boat at $50,000 and you present an offer for $5,000 I might dimiss it and ignore you unless you could show me how the boat is a wreck and wasn't worth that much. Personally, I would avoid boats that seem to be offereed too high for no reason. It may mean there is no negotiation possible.

Sometimes the deal can not be made. It might be your fault or the seller. Not every boat is a deal for you. So you just have to uinderstand what deals to go after and which ones to walk away from. Never offer a price you won't follow through with. Sellers want honest buyers too. Being nice won't hurt. I would give someone I liked a better deal just because I like them. That is more true than you might imagine for many people.

LyleRussell 10-09-2006 07:40 PM

I asked this question about 2 months ago in a different way and received much the same advice. Generally they said offer "There are too many variables, offer what's it worth to you". Not much help when looking at a J-37c that needed some money put into it after purchase. I have found that BUC and NADA to be quite worthless. Boats actually sell for well above their values. The BoatUS lady seems to do a better job valuing a boat. BUT I haven't actually had an offer accepted that was made based upon her input.

It would be nice to have some rational way of coming up with an offer.

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