1971 C&C 35 is a "Go" or "NO Go"

rockDAWG · #1 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

I found a 1971 C&C 35 in my area for 14K. Cosmetically, she is in bad shape and comes with no sails. Is it worth of rebuilding this boat say spending $20K or so in 12 to 18 months time? I am handy and with tools, so I can do a lot myself.

Is she worth to save? Can she takes me to Blue water and is likely to bring me back alive?

FrankLanger · #2 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me, if she's as rough as you indicate.
Frank.

hellosailor · #3 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

rockdawg, it might or might not be a good deal. I like the "no sails" because it means the seller KNOWS there are no sails, and you don't have to pay for decade old rags. You can start with new good ones.

On the other hand...what's "rough"? Assuming the hull and deck are chalky and you're willing to live with that, instead of doing a repaint? That might be tolerable. But how's the engine? Electrics? Other systems?

Take a look at Yachtworld or any boat listings, see what a really top notch C&C35 is selling for, no problems, ready to sail. Now, make up a list of what you need to match that, with prices for all the equipment AND a labor schedule. I like to figure labor on a 3-way split. I'll cheat and let Excel do the numbers. Best case / best guess / pro labor.
Best case is called "Maybe it just needs to be tightened up" or "I only need to drop in a new...". Best guess is what I suspect it really will take, the value of my time, at my rate, if I do the labor. That's a very personal and individual number, some folks figure their own work is worth $6.50/hour, others actually make $150/hr. And the "pro labor" rate is what a yard would quote you, i.e. if you ask them to paint your bottom and they say "$600 for paint, $4500 for labor" that's the labor figure.

When you add up all the parts, add another 10% for the inevitable, and add each of the three labor totals. Compare your three totals to what the boat sells for in prime condition. Now, you'll see if it might be a bargain.

And that's assuming you, or a surveyor, have looked close. Keel bolts, engine, rigging...if the bones are sound and clean and you're just getting a "stripped" boat at a good price, GREAT. Gives you the chance to make it your way.

Faster · #4 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

Agree with "Hello", it really depends on exactly what you mean by "in bad shape".
Bad cosmetics can be dealt with and are a great way to get basic quality for a reduced price.

The trick is making sure that the deficiencies are indeed cosmetic, and that they don't hide more serious underlying issues. A good C&C 35 of that vintage would list around $30-40K in this area depending on condition.

Have a REAL GOOD look at what's what.

FrankLanger · #5 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

I agree that a good C&C of that vintage would sell for about 30,000 - 40,000. If he is buying for 14,000, and wanting to put another 20,000 into it, he is spending that 30 - 40K, having to do all the work or organize for it to be done, and still not be much further ahead. Granted, he would have newer/replaced components, though 20K wouldn't buy much more than new engine, sails and a few odds and ends. I still don't think it's a great buy given other options and the uncertainty of what it will cost to make it a good boat.
Frank.

hellosailor · #6 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

Frank, the only major thing I'd disagree on is that no $30-40,000 boat in the 35; range is going to some with a couple of new sails. Usually, by the time a boat is that old and has hit that price range, the owner has put off the purchase for so long that at best they'll be "decent" five year olds. Gotta figure, what, a fast rough $5500 for a main and 150? Give or take (and more easily give) a couple grand for season and loft?

rockDAWG · #7 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

Gentlemen, I really appreciate you taking time to share you thoughts. Obviously, it is impossible to say Go or no Go. But I hope through this informal discussion I can gain a bit more knowledge in buying a right boat for me to take her to the oceans.

I know there were quite a few sentiments suggested to buy a boat that meets your need rather to buy a boat and fix her up to meet your need. Personally, I would rather buy a boat to rebuild her so that I know every bolts and nuts on her.

Let take this C&C 35 MK1 as an example. FWIW, I pay 14K and spend 1 year to restore her completely. I will rebuild the engine and all interior work plus the top deck. I will sand blast the hull and have professional do the painting ($125/ft). I estimate I need 10K for sails and hull paint. I will put another 15K for other stuff (not sure is enough). In this case, I spend $40K for a relative new boat.

On the other hand if I buy a relative well taken care of C&C 35 MK1 for 35 to 40K, and take her out in the ocean. I still do not know the boat. I would rather have a boat that I know her inside and out. If I am in the middle of the ocean when something goes wrong, I cannot wait until I get to the port.

May be I was/am a hardcore Jeeper. There is a saying: Jeeps are built—not bought. In a way, I do believe that. Self reliance is essential for survival either on the top of 13K feet mountain in Colorado or in the middle of Atlantic.

rockDAWG · #8 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

I did a search, not much info I could find regarding C&C 35 MK1 on ocean crossing. The only thing I have found is a paragraph by Jeff H. He praised this boat and said she was a boat ahead of her time. Does anyone can chime in more on this?

Between CS and C&C, which one can survive better in the open ocean?

As always...... thanks

Faster · #9 (**permalink**) 10-06-2006

'DawgThe C&C 35 and the CS (I'm assuming 36?) are boats from different eras in design and are in very different market segments. CS36Ts still regularily command prices in the $90Ks CDN if well kept. The BEST kept C&C35 Mk1 might go to 45/50K but it would have to be pristine and updated to the max. Even the CS33 still commands prices in excess of the C&C 35 Mk1, in the $50K plus range.I know of CS36Ts that have made many ocean passages without trouble, and I know of a C&C 35 Mk1 that did a major passage to Alaska, the Aleutians and back across the Gulf of Alaska to the Queen Charlottes a few years back. I think both designs are inherently capable, it comes down to individual condition, equipment and the crew.

hellosailor · #10 (**permalink**) 10-07-2006

Rockdawg, the other thing that comes to mind about C&C is that they are usually rod rigging. That's a good thing (arguably) but it also means you need to do a rigging inspection a little differently, check for stresses at the rod ends, and to see the ball fittings aloft haven't frozen or chewed into the mast. As with any rigging, if you're planning to go deepwater with it, and it is over 20 years old, you might want to replace it all before you head out.

In the last few years there's been more of a consensus that no matter how good rigging looks, no matter what kind it is, after 20 years even the best of it from the best of climates probably needs replacing.