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Looking for my first boat - PNW

5K views 38 replies 12 participants last post by  timbertotide 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all, I decided to join this forum because almost every google search I did for sailboat reviews led me here to read some solid advice. So here I am, looking for more advice...

What are some quality sailboat options in my price range that can be found in British Columbia?(I would travel to WA or OR to buy a boat if the exchange wasn't so horrible) I am very attracted to 26-28ft pocket cruisers with full or cutaway keels.

I'm looking to spend $5000 and probably that much on retrofits and upgrades. I am a reasonably handy guy with knowledge in electrical, plumbing, and carpentry.

I will primarily be sailing the inner coast of Vancouver Island and looking to spend anywhere from one night to a week on the boat at a time, so cabin comfort is important to me.

I am 6'3"...... So I think I have come to terms with not being able to stand upright in any small sailboat.

Boats that have caught my eye include the Pearson Triton 28, Albin Vega 27, Bristol 27, Albin Ballad 30, Alberg 30, Vancouver 27, Southern Cross 28. I think you get the picture.

Anyone out there from this area or elsewhere who would like to share their thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
 
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#4 ·
The first thing I saw on the Vancouver Craigslist is a Grampian 26 _with_ trailer, asking $7100:
26' sailboat with trailer $7100 OBO

Grampian 26
GRAMPIAN 26

Having a Trailer with this size and expense of boat makes a lot of sense; if you have a place to store it, and a way to tow it.
(For my 29 footer, I'm paying ~$3300 a year for a Berth... but for me, it's worth it. Dry Boat Storage on Trailer at a Marina around here is around half that.)

Grampians have a following, but I've never actually seen one locally.

¬Erindipity
 
#5 ·
Hello Sir,

I believe you can find a boat in that price range. I myself once purchased an old 27 footer that had 6'4" headroom in the main cabin for $2900. Of course, it took another $12,000 to get her seaworthy and that is with the vast majority of work done myself. The boats you are listing, like Albergs and Southern Crosses are way out of your price range. You will not find a blue water boat for that price. You can find a decent coastal cruiser however. You need to walk the docks. Sailors like to talk about their boats and a big store of information for you will rest in spending just a few hours in a couple sailboats. I think you would be well served to see for yourself the different qualities, and prices which come with them.
$10,000 all in is enough, but it is tight and will not buy you a boat with all the fixings like AC, refrigeration, self-steering, roller furling, ect. You will get a bare bones hank-on style vessel between 1965-1985 with a V-berth as the main cabin and a two burner stove as your kitchen. If this is all you need then go for it! If you want to enjoy nice cruises during your summer months to places further away than the coast I suggest you get another 10k. Once you get to 15K you can find some good small little boats with lots of upgrades. After 20K it gets even better.
Good luck in your search.
 
#7 ·
I'd say your budget and your intended area of use will preclude most of your list. IMO in BC waters you need a boat that goes well to weather if you plan to sail often. Other than some strait crossings, most of our trips are prone to be dead upwind or dead downwind.. and when the tide's against you too, that kind of weatherly performance is a premium you'll appreciate.

I'd be looking for something like a late 70s Ranger 29, C&C 27, or CS 27 in that range for BC coastal cruising. These are boats that are relatively common in the area, known for decent to good build quality and with good sailing characteristics. Finding one that is ready to go for 10K shouldn't be that difficult, though listings in the area are down, esp with our weak dollar and most boats likely being sold into the US (they get an instant 30-40% discount).
 
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#8 ·
I have a Bristol 27. With the right equipment this would be perfectly capable of sailing in your area. There is 6' of headroom near the companionway, then goes down to about 5'10" near the head. These are fairly narrow boats. That means it will heel a bit more than some before it digs in. It also means that the motion is more comfortable that a boat with a lot of form stability.
 
#9 ·
Pearson Vanguard, 50 year old design but built like a tank. 6'2" headroom, 400 or so built. Look for one which has been consistently upgraded. soft spots in the deck are common though not necessarily catastrophic. I've lived on one for years and cruised the New England coast in relative comfort. The hull is easy to access and thus to insulate if your climate requires a fireplace. I insulated and lined the hull above the waterline and installed a Dickenson Marine propane heater, added refrigeration and solar, a furler., lots of goodies and upgrades. Will never get the investment back but have had years of fun and learned a lot about cruising and sailing in general. Little Atomic four engine runs like a watch. If I were to do it again, I'd try to find one that had an owner like me who fell in love with the design and over invested. 10K would get one in good shape with a newer diesel.
Jim
 
#11 ·
Vanguards are great, but doesn't fit in with the OP's "pocket cruiser in the 25-27 range" as it is almost 34' long. Maybe something like the Pearson Coaster or Ariel/Triton would be closer. Other ones too look for - Cape Dory 25, 27, 28. Don't discount the Bristol 24 (it's actually a 25 - bigger than it appears on paper with good sized berths). Columbia 26. Might be bigger than you are looking, but the old Islander 29's are good ones too.
 
#10 ·
There are so many good boats that fit your perameters that I might suggest a different strategy: Go look at boats. After a while you will get a feeling of what different price points get you. Then look for a boat you really like that has two things: excellent condition and excellent gear. Getting a "great" boat that needs work can turn into more work than you expect. Getting a "great" boat that needs a lot of gear can up the price way beyond expectations. Every once in a while a boat comes along that the owner has poured his heart (and pocketbook) into. Buy that boat.
 
#12 ·
Thank you all for your input and opinions. This has been really helpful so far.

A couple of boats that have surfaced in my area recently are a Catalina 27' for $3000 with a 9.9 Merc and needing some fiberglass deck work, and Cal 20' that looks dirty and bare bones. Both of these being listed in John Vigor's 'Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere'. Also 1980 28' Spencer Sunstar sloop for $2500 with a yanmar 8hp diesel that looks well equipped. Does anyone know anything about the Sunstar?
 
#16 · (Edited)
Thank you all for your input and opinions. This has been really helpful so far.

.... Also 1980 28' Spencer Sunstar sloop for $2500 with a yanmar 8hp diesel that looks well equipped. Does anyone know anything about the Sunstar?
Locally built by Spencer Yachts, the Sunstar is a fairly roomy boat for its size, design is usually attributed to Bob Perry and/or Ed Monk Jr. Not sure about the contribution of each to the entirety. The Sailboat Data link below attributes the boat solely to BP, not a bad pedigree ;)

Fairly roomy boats, encapsulated ballast (not positive - the Sunstar 31 appears to be so I'm assuming the 28/838 is too) The positive there for an older boat is you'll have no keel bolt issues.. but you need to find out what the ballast is. (ie lead vs iron) If the latter you really need to worry more about any water ingress due to groundings.

The 8HP engine is very marginal for that boat - she has a fair bit of freeboard and will suffer from windage a bit - the engine is anemic for that size. Fine for daysailing but if you're out for a summer cruise in our area you'll have days where it's tough to make progress against tide and contrary breeze at times.

At that price I'd expect some serious issues, so eyes wide open. Also, for someone shopping CDs this is a very different genre of boat.. perhaps you need to refine your 'wish list'. FWIW in BC I would not be looking at full keelers.

SUN 28 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
 
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#17 ·
The ad on kijiji for the 1980 Sunstar claims that the keel is lead.
"New main sail, new furling 150 genoa, new furler, new compas. Lead keel 2300lbs 4'4" draft. Boat weight 6300 lbs. Yanmar SB8 1 cylinder 8hp diesel engine (5.5 knot cuise). Ice box, propane 3 burner Magic Chef stove/oven, Uniden VHF, Eagle sounder/fish finder, 15lb Danforth Anchor with 250' rope and 29' chain. Needs some interior work - upholstery in decent shape. Needs new tiller. Serious inquiries only."
 
#18 ·
I'd certainly want some clarification on 'Needs some interior work'.. The listed goodies sound OK as long as it's all working, and in fact makes the low ask even more suspicious, I'm afraid to say...

btw couldn't find the ad myself...?
 
#20 ·
If you need a second pair of eyes when you check out a boat, drop me a PM.. be happy to go along if timing works out.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I think it's fair to say that an efficient, fin/spade design is generally faster, but more importantly more weatherly than most full keel boats. Since so often we end up beating to our destinations this can make the difference between getting somewhere in time for that last mooring buoy, decent anchoring spot or the last berth at the marina.

Few full keelers are light air boats.. Our summers frequently feature light air days in certain areas so you'll sail more often.

It's largely a personal preference.. I like to be able to back into an unfamiliar docking situation with confidence and under control as well. I like minimal exterior wood too...(essentially lazy ;))
In many cases you'll end up with more volume for same LOA with a "newer" (relative term: i.e. 70s/80s vs 60s design)... In many cases the typical full keel/blue water boat won't meet these requirements.
 
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#24 ·
A little food for thought, I am 6'1" tall, I have spent a lot of time on the water in power boats, which are laid out very differently than sail boats for sure. Back in 2002 I almost bought a 25' sail boat to use as a live aboard, today I am very glad I got the advice I did from a more experienced sailor which was to ask to spend a couple of nights on the boat or a similar one before I threw down my money on it and man oh man am I glad I did!

I found that it was way too small for me and I was very uncomfortable.

Before making a purchase id try to spend as much time as you can in the boat you are looking at, there is little worse in life than making a purchase and regretting it later when just a little bit more time in the purchase process could have helped you make a better decision.
 
#25 ·
A little food for thought, I am 6'1" tall, I have spent a lot of time on the water in power boats, which are laid out very differently than sail boats for sure. Back in 2002 I almost bought a 25' sail boat to use as a live aboard, today I am very glad I got the advice I did from a more experienced sailor which was to ask to spend a couple of nights on the boat or a similar one before I threw down my money on it and man oh man am I glad I did!

I found that it was way too small for me and I was very uncomfortable.

Before making a purchase id try to spend as much time as you can in the boat you are looking at, there is little worse in life than making a purchase and regretting it later when just a little bit more time in the purchase process could have helped you make a better decision.
A sound perspective, but being somewhat tall myself, I would like to ask this:
Just how much time spent down below is spent standing up?
I've even learned how to pee sitting down, especially when heeled...

Of greater concern is Berth Length. Six foot one is going to be cramped in six foot zero for any few hours at a stretch.

One of the advantages of being tall and myopic is that I tend to crouch naturally.
When I'm cooking, even at home, I tend to adapt the posture of a Preying Mantis. Knees splayed, head bent, while grinding the obstinance out of lumpy gravy with angled elbows.
Yet I do feel the need to stretch once in a while. At home, I can really stretch out on tippy toes, and brush the seven foot ten inch ceiling with my fingertips.
In the companionway of my boat, when the Hatches are open, I can't even brush the sky.

The long and surprisingly wide, under the Cockpit, Aft Cabin in this boat is similarly well thought through.
I'm one of those that _really_ likes to stretch out and undulate my spine just when waking up, much like a cat does, just after dreaming of gullible mice.
Over seven feet long in the berth, and another couple of feet further for what laughably passes for a Dressing Room, complete with seat, under which a Battery sits, hanging closet, and a mirror...

The other berths are ~2 meters even long, (~79") , and impede stretching. Those berths are for Guests. Shorter guests. Male shorter guests.

With All stretched out, the Aft Cabin Berth has more than room enough for two, if friendly, or three if very friendly, with little need for... Standing Room.

¬Erindipity
 
#28 ·
Does this seem like a good deal? Or is it too high an asking price for a Catalina?

I can't yet post a link, but it's listed on Vancouver's Craigslist.

27 Catalina Sailboat
9.9 mercury ob electric start
2 sails new halyards ,new dodger
GPS chart plotter, vhs radio,stereo
Many new parts .assumable moor age in gibson marina.
Asking 4000.00
 
#29 · (Edited)
Well, the dodger probably cost half that.

However the tarp is a pretty good indication of leaky windows (not a deal breaker, a fairly easy fix with a number of options) The price may already reflect that issue, seeing as how most other C27s are in the $7K region.

Gibsons moorage is a coveted thing but not the most convenient if you live on Vancouver Island. It's two ferries either way you go... As a sailing/cruising starting point, however, it's hard to beat. Closest/shortest crossing to Silva Bay, a pretty easy single tack fetch across to Nanaimo, and Howe sound at your doorstep.

Worth going over to take a look, I'd say, but given the low ask I'd be going in eyes wide open for other issues like leaking chainplates, water damage below, wet decks etc.
 
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#31 ·
Hi All,

Going to look at a Grampian 26 this weekend. Asking price is $6000. Inboard has been removed and replaced with 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke. It needs the main sail halyard replaced and some minor damage to the jib sail repaired.

Any thoughts on the Grampian? Things to look for specifically?
 
#32 ·
Tough, slightly homely (IMO) boats with a fair bit of room esp when you consider they are relatively narrow. The outboard versions had a transom cutout for easier access, a converted inboard may be quite a reach from the tiller.. does it have remote engine controls?

A surprisingly good/fast boat upwind in a breeze when well handled. Off the breeze I think a spinnaker would be quite helpful and desirable. A goodly number of them around, I think they are decent boats but being as hung up on 'row away factor' as I am it wouldn't be my first choice. (Line one up beside a C&C 25 and you (may) see what I mean)

After that, it's all the usuals... leaking ports and water damage therefrom, same with chainplates. Soft deck spots, incl cockpit floor. The issues you mention already are to be expected with any used boat, and in all likelihood the sails are going to be relatively shot. But you can get yourself going with them, all the more to appreciate the improvement when you finally upgrade. Look for function and age of any electronics (Sounder, VHF, Knotmeter etc)

Good luck! A decent boat for BC waters.
 
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#33 ·
I actually covered Grampians in my first post on this thread...
$6000, (Canadian?), is way too much for such a boat as currently described.
Yanking the inboard, and slapping a hundred pounds of outboard on one end is an indication of slipshod Character.
You really should have looked at that earlier Grampian that I mentioned, the one with the trailer...

But still, I have already given you links to what you already need to know about Grampians.
"It needs the main sail halyard replaced and some minor damage to the jib sail repaired."

Fifty dollar repairs. If they haven't been done by now, why not?

¬Erindipity
 
#34 ·
Erindipity,

Thank you for the Grampian information. I do not own a truck, so a boat on a trailer would be hard to move. Also, moorage in my area is very hard to come by. This Grampian has transferable moorage that is 15mins from my house. Yes, Canadian dollars, so $4500USD.

Considering the majority of Grampians were originally fitted with outboards, do you think adding one to an originally inboard model would adversely affect it?
 
#35 ·
As auxiliary sailboats got shorter and lighter, Naval Architects spent a lot of Time and Thought on just where to put a few hundred pounds of mostly Cast Iron sputterings.
One solution was to place them right above the keel, and cover them with the Salon table. Thus having an auxiliary engine, or not, just was another factor in how high or low the boat naturally rode.
Moving the engines aft meant considering how placement affected "Pitch", and that is why very few sailboats had inboard engines stuck right in the stern. (This actually is common with powerboats, btw.)
A proper Naval Architect would have to weigh in here. Yet taking the weight out from near center, and sticking it out at aft end will inevitably effect balance.
I don't know how Grampians were designed. It is entirely possible that the placement of the auxiliary engines had been worked out initially, and whether an inboard or outboard was initially installed makes little difference in sailing qualities for subsequent retrofits.

It is very common to see outboards of various makes stuck on to the sagging aft ends of old sailboats with ailing or missing inboards.
They actually work. So does a sculling oar.

~$4500(US) just might be good price for this Grampian. One defining factor is this:
"This Grampian has transferable moorage that is 15mins from my house. "

Think about this: The value of a legal moorage can often exceed the value of the boat therein moored. This is all too common, and utter garbage scows sometimes hold title and rights to such valuable moorages.

Be
Careful

¬Erindipity
 
#36 ·
Moorage waiting lists in Comox are decades long... this situation is probably the only way around it, and certainly adds to the value of the package.
 
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