So when does a boat built in 1977 become a 1999 model? - SailNet Community
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 10-26-2006 Thread Starter
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So when does a boat built in 1977 become a 1999 model?

Yachtworld has a listing for a 46' "Bill Tripp custom cruiser" (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._boats=1475502) that is called a 1999 model. Until a few weeks ago, it was listed as a Tripp Grampian boat.

Originally, this boat was called "Tatiana W", and has a webpage at http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/commun...upid=126697&ck Here they mention Grampian as the Canadian builder. (Notice the same photo is on both sites.)

The boat also spent time as "Eye to Eye" (http://members.buckeye-express.com/drbob2020/), also described as a 1999 Grampian.

Trouble is, while Grampian Marine Ltd., of Oakville, Ontario built some Bill Tripp designed 46' cruisers, they went out of business in 1977.

It looks to me like someone found a 1977 Grampian 46, refit it and sold it as a 1999 "custom" boat. The second and third owners also advertise it as a 1999 boat. (Given how hideous the interior is, maybe it's not surprising it's had three owners since 2004, and is still for sale...)

The Yachtworld listing says the boat was built from 1999 to 2004, and a surveyor said in May 2004 the boat has undergone an "extensive refit". Why would a just-built boat need an extensive refit?

I contacted the broker (Island Yachting Centre) and asked about the discrepency. They said they'd look into it. I see their listing no longer mentions Grampian, but that's all I've heard from them.

So I was wondering, how would a boat originally built in 1977 turn into a 1999 model?

Since this has been pointed out to the broker, don't they have a legal duty to disclose what they know about the boat's true age? Seems like "rolling back the odometer" to me.

Just curious if this is how boat brokers operate.

Cheers,

Tim
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post #2 of 10 Old 10-26-2006
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heres a question you can ask... in 1985, the Ford-Lehman was rated @ 120 HP. Since 1986, the engine has been rated @ 135HP... I wonder why they would install an engine that hadn't been made in 20 years.

(found the boat here too)
http://www.onlineboatsales.com/cgi-b...sad&adid=12894

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post #3 of 10 Old 10-26-2006
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If it started life as a 1977 boat, with a 1977-series HIN, which is still on the boat...it's still a 1977 boat no matter who or how it was refit, in my opinion.

Sleazy at best to refer to the boat by any other year or way without expressly saying there's a 1977 boat's hull at the heart of it, at the very least.

Even in Florida, where that boat is being sold and boats with engines are considered "motor vehicles", that would probably be considered some type of fraud. If someone buys that boat, and it has a 1977 HIN, and then they go to the DMV or their insurer to register the boat as a "1999"...ain't gonna be a pretty picture.

So sad really, when they could get a lot more attention by running a caption about a "Brand New Old Boat" or something to get interest without distorting the issue.
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post #4 of 10 Old 10-26-2006
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One possibility, although quite slim, is if the hull was built in 1977, but never finished, it could be a 1999 boat, if it was finished in 1999 and put into service. If it is anything else, then the seller is quite unethical....misrepresentation is never a good start to any relationship.

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"A custom boat so fine it took thirty years to build!"

See, you can still get mileage out of the truth.
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post #6 of 10 Old 10-26-2006
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When were HIN's started? My 1972 boat doesn't have one, never did.
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In the US they started in 72, but a "1972" boat could have been built in 1971, without one. Boats, like cars and quarter horses, aren't always built in the year they are tagged with.
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post #8 of 10 Old 10-26-2006 Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=cardiacpaul]heres a question you can ask... in 1985, the Ford-Lehman was rated @ 120 HP. Since 1986, the engine has been rated @ 135HP... I wonder why they would install an engine that hadn't been made in 20 years.

Also, the NADA and BUC guides for the 1977 Grampian 46 list the engine as a 55 hp diesel, which seems reasonable for a boat that size. Can't figure why someone would put in more than twice this, unless they found an old engine cheap.

Tim
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post #9 of 10 Old 06-14-2015
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Re: So when does a boat built in 1977 become a 1999 model?

Hello, my family built "Tatiana W" in Brantford Ontario and we sailed from Toronto to Cuba in it. I know this forum thread is almost a decade old now, but I would like to purchase this boat back from whoever currently has it. Any advice in tracking down its present owners would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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post #10 of 10 Old 06-15-2015
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Re: So when does a boat built in 1977 become a 1999 model?

If you can find the hull number that was assigned to it, and it has been subsequently registered to your national authority, it may be possible to ask them for information about the current ownership. In this US this would be a vessel documentation search, free online. In Canada, rashly assuming it was sold to Canadians not Cubans, no idea.
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