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  #21  
Old 10-29-2006
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Melrna-

Are you aware that most bluewater boats have smaller cockpits as a safety feature. A large cockpit, that gets pooped, can hold enough water to endanger the safety of the boat in many cases. Coastal cruisers, which are generally not out in as heavy weather, since they can turn into harbors relatively quickly, have larger cockpits for the larger crews that are often on them for daysails.

Also, 150 gallons of water is 1200 pounds of weight and takes up about 20 cubic feet. 100 gallons of fuel is about 700 lbs. Most of the boats that can carry this amount of water and fuel in built-in tanks are going to be towards the higher end of your size range.

Are you sure that both you or your partner will be capable of handling a boat this size alone in an emergency?? Just something to consider. A Hallberg Rassy 40, which is in the size range and about the same tankage as you're looking at, has almost 870 sq. ft. of sail area between the mainsail and the 100% jib. If the boat has a problem and the electric winches die...would you be able to reef the main sail manually??

Just a few points for you to consider. Also, as the boat size goes up, so does the amount of maintenance, the cost of repairs, hauling out, docking, mooring, etc. Do you want a floating condo or a sailboat? Some others on this site, who have boats in that size range, never seem to sail them... just use them as floating or drydocked condos... which seems to be an awful waste of money to me.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 10-29-2006 at 11:05 AM.
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2006
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Sailingdog

If one was take your arguments than the 1,000 of cruisers out there would never get off the dock.
Tankage. Good designed boats puts the tankage below the waterline and in the centerline. This gives the boat a better CG (center of gravity) and more stability. As an example Caliber and Super Amels do this the best. I read a lot of cruisers blogs and find they run out of diesel fuel because their tankage is weak and/or pay high prices for fuel when they get somewhere when the next island or port has fuel for less. Carry jerry cans to make it somewhere is an option but it clutters the deck. Furthermore, who wants to drag them into town in a dingy, drag them back and than fill the tanks. Talk about strength!
Aft cockpits. I agree with large open cockpits can be dangerous. I have ruled out most production boats for this, Catalina's, Bennie, Hunter, ect.
Sail area and electric winches. Most sailboats in this size don't have them. Even costal cruisers don't or racers. So reducing sail area your argument is mute. If the sailboat is properly set-up than no problem. I don't think with all the retiree’s out there the strength to reduce sail is a problem. Of course good seamanship always helps too.
Fair winds
Melissa

Last edited by Melrna; 10-29-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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  #23  
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If I am crusing from Bahamas to Azores I would want more then 70 gallons of diesel. Just in case. The 1900 lbs of fuel and water has to be carried down low, but a 37' boat should be able to do it ornot be built. IMO.

The need to fly all possible sail is to me the arguement for a cutter or ketch as the sails are smaller/easier to reef. One awkward fore sail but the others are easier to handle.

Question of Endeavor not really heavy enough, in what respect ? The displacement is heavier then most all the production boats. So where does it need beefing up, if possible ?

Thats why I posted that link, pick it apart please, before I buy one. Looking at cockpits, again, not too hard to pick out the ones built for the close-in cruisers and day sailers. Others otoh, are smaller and have protection.
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Old 10-30-2006
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To throw in another topic,
I have been reading through my Wooden Boat books and noted that the displacements on most of these are way higher then comparable sized glass boats. Ex few of the 40s listed on Yacht World are above 20,000 lbs while many of the well known wooden 40s are pushing 40,000 lbs.

Are glass boats engineered for the difference or is it just a cost saving manufacturing thing ?

Whats a good displacement for a cruiser that can do blue water trips? Say a 35', a 37' and a 40' ? To their credit a number of the listed 37s did have fairly good tankage.
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Traditional wooden boats have to have thicker hulls to have the same strength as GRP boat of the same size IIRC.

Also, most traditional wooden boats have to have internal framing, which is often not necessary on a GRP boat.

The tensile and compressive strength of GRP is far higher. For instance, Douglas Fir has a tensile strength of 2150 PSI and a compressive strength of 2000 PSI, and weighs 34 lbs per cubic foot. GRP with cloth and roving has a tensile strength of 35000 PSI and a compressive strength of 25000 PSI, and weighs 106 lbs per cubic foot. To get the same strength from the wood, you would require a significantly heavier weight of wood, even though the material is less dense.

BTW these figures are from Daniel Spurr's Upgrading The Cruisng Sailboat.

This doesn't necessarily apply to cold-molded laminated wooden boats, similar to those made by the Gougeon Brothers of West Epoxy fame.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 10-30-2006 at 08:28 AM.
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Displacements

okay, to take under consideration, will want that book.

then what are reasonable displacements for 'heavy cruisers' of the 37' to 40' range?

I am trying to weed out boats on the market unfit for serious cruising, so far looking at tankage, displacements, cant find figures on rigging size components, thru-haul fittings etc, such things arnt even mentioned on YW listings other then for some tankage and about half displacement and ballast. Majority of attention is on dockaminium appeal.

Its a slow process. Eventually will find a cruiser that can make that passage from the Bahamas to the Azores.
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I'd avoid wooden boats, as the maintenance is much higher than most people are willing to do nowadays. A couple of other good books to get are Dave Gerr's The Nature of Boats, and John Vigor's The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #28  
Old 10-30-2006
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Heavy displacement doesn't necessarily translate to heavily built. In looking at boats, you can't get too fixated on one component, at the expense of others. Chances are, the only boat you'll find that fits all your criteria, is one you have custom built. Unless you're independently wealthy, any boat is going to be a compromise of what you want, with what you can get.

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  #29  
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factors

Hi John
unfortunately yachtworld listings etc dont tell how hulls are connected, how thick or what thru-hulls there are, and what they use. They just stress the cosmetics, not whether the boat will take you not only out of the bay but bring you back.

but tankage and displacement does tend to indicate those who are making boats for serious useage and not as dockaminiums.

I'm on the wrong side of the learning curve as to which companys are producing serious cruising boats, somehow got to winnow these hints and clues out. NOBODY wants to say this or that make/model is strictly a dockaminium and this one is a good blue water cruiser. Following prices doesnt help in that, too many people with the money to lay out a quarter million for once a summer sailing dockaminiums. The occasional sailing yacht that shows up has different sailing characteristics then what I want. I'm a pickup man not a sports car driver. I'm looking for a Ford 4 WD F150 or Toyota Land Cruiser in a boat, not a 'vette.

But, from reading here and talking to some forum members I am slowly deleting those boats not to be given serious consideration. Its a process. I appreciate all of the input.
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Whitby 42, or Brewer 12.8, both designed by Brewer, the 12.8 a newer rendition basically. I believe JeffH spoke about them in a recent thread, though I don't recall which thread it was.

The yachtworld listings are just a compilation of broker listings by and large, so what you read is what brokers think is important to sell the boat.
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Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
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