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  #31  
Old 10-30-2006
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weeding them out

Hi John
thanks, added those two to the list, slowly getting one, even slower finding them, this all takes time, meanwhile working on the reading,

right on about the brokers lists, pretty sells apparently more then seaworthiness.

one of these days I'll post a glossary of what the various brokers description phrases really mean.
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2006
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I spent 3 winters living on the net researching boats. The hardest part was determining what I would actually do, as opposed to what I'd like to do. Once I figured that out, the boat search became much easier. I ended up with a sound coastal cruiser, that I know of one sistership that has crossed the pond. After 6 months, it's been everything I expected, and a bit more.
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  #33  
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I love my Morgan 36 O/I for open water sailing but I do have an original morgan that was made in 1974
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  #34  
Old 10-31-2006
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I am trying to absorb a lot of the good advice I have run into here, right now through spring is homework time, much to do, including working on the sale appeal aspects of my place here, I am in a strong buyers market where I am.

One thing I havenot had much input on is bank financing for boats. My present credit union does loans on boats but as they do cars, five years is it. So I am going to have to find a bank that knows what sailboats are.

I wrote a post a week ago on this but it never appeared, taboo subject ? I havent seen any threads on it.

As John says, we can spend too much time researching when we need to have an action plan to do it. Mine is to get this place sold and then get out and look at boats while getting in some sailing time, I am planning on both ,some courses to get regrounded mixed in with sailing with several friends on their boats.

I had begun looking at boats from 35' to 41', still have two 40s on the list but most are 37-39'. Along the way ahve dropped those bookmarked with small tankage, shalow draft and what I thought as minimal displacement. I have also gotten picky on a couple interior items like galley layout and adequate nav centers. Several with extra settees I decided could have book shelves and stowage in place of some of those settees/berths.One with two quarter berths aft looks like those berths could hold auxillary fuel tanks.

One thing I canNOT find is sizes of rigging material on any of them. I have several sources for SS cable/rope, and fittings, I have priced out this compared to several yacht catalogs and the yacht catalongs I think, are aimed at the dockaminiums checkbooks. A little time spent on the Thomas Register can payback big time on much of these.

Also, I have a local Amish metal fabricating shop which has the best prices on custom metal items I have seen anywhere, give him an object and they will duplicate it far more reasonably. Good folks, his Dad owns the biggest local feed store. If interested its Miller Machine Company, Kittle Rd, Mio, Michigan. No email, you'll have to write them, or call, 989 826 2181. You can get the stuff made there and then send somewhere for coating.

I am beginning to downsize my things, major book sorting through, put some on permanent loan, a few to a library, some to give away, and more sailing related to get.

Most of these boats have very little in the way of tool storage. I cant see going offshore with just a roll of duct tape. Yet that seems to be what a lot of designers think is adequate. My major critique of the production boats is they seem to stress dockside living to the expense of practical sailing offshore.

nuff,

comments ?
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  #35  
Old 10-31-2006
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Most companies that will do a marine mortgage will want you to have USCG documentation on the boat, as it affords them far better protection than a mere consumer loan does.

BTW, a marine mortgage's interest can be deductible on your taxes if the boat has a permanent head and galley, as it can qualify as a home. I don't know what your budget or your plan is, but it would probably be wiser to go and get a slightly smaller boat, and pay cash for it, rather than finance it.

The reason I say this, is that most people who are going cruising long-term—and since you're talking about making bluewater passages, so I'm guessing you're planning on heading out for an extended period of time—don't want to have the recurring payments at a time when their income is considerably lower than it was previously.

Also, almost all boats are going to be a compromise of some sort. Whether it is sailing performance for storage and cabin size, or more tankage and less storage space, or full-keel versus manueverabiilty, etc... Finding the perfect boat is very unlikely....you really have to find a boat that you love, and has a layout, design and build that you can work with for the type of sailing you want to do.

One question I have for you is this... have you actually been aboard any of the boats you're looking at, or are you just doing this via specifications and photos. Buying a boat is often not a rational thing—often it is a matter of stepping aboard and knowing that this is the boat you want—regardless of whether it is "perfect" for your needs.

Just my $.02 on the boat buying process.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #36  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Buying a boat is often not a rational thing—often it is a matter of stepping aboard and knowing that this is the boat you want—regardless of whether it is "perfect" for your needs
Jake,a few thoughts, based on your posts:
Boats are what you make of them. Storage is something you adapt to what you have. Few areas are dedicated to specific items outside of the galley. You improvise and utilize.

If you intend to cruise, you're far better off having a boat that is paid for. Not only does it eliminate a recurring cost, it also helps in the matter of insurance. The cost of full coverage insurance, once you leave coastal waters is prohibitive enough that many go without it. Something that isn't an option on a loan.

Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. Displacement alone is not as important as you seem to credit it. Nor is shoal draft necessarily a bad thing. You want to assess a boat as a combination of all the factors, not just one or two.

Lastly, don't forget that "better is the enemy of good enough".

Regards,
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Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


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  #37  
Old 10-31-2006
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HR 40 reefing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Are you sure that both you or your partner will be capable of handling a boat this size alone in an emergency?? Just something to consider. A Hallberg Rassy 40, which is in the size range and about the same tankage as you're looking at, has almost 870 sq. ft. of sail area between the mainsail and the 100% jib. If the boat has a problem and the electric winches die...would you be able to reef the main sail manually??
I happen to have an HR 40 with a conventional, full batten main with three reefs. All halyards and reefing lines are at the mast. As long as I keep the cars and track clean and lubricated, reefing is a 3 or 4 minute job for one person (and the autopilot). It is yet faster with someone else driving the boat to luff the main at just the right time.

I do have one electric sheet winch (it is the "windlass" for my stern anchor setup). Nonetheless, I'd put money into a good battcar system before spending money on electric winches. Just my experience.
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  #38  
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i totally agree with paulk note find that book and it will open your eyes as to the questions you are pondering. i have one, very insightful. i wouldn't give it up for anything (not that follow it or any other to a t), but it will give you a better of an understanding of the forces at play and how different designs react to those forces. of all the books i've read on these subjects and there have been a few, this is by far the better in imho. i am not an architech or anything like that, but like to read and understand what is written. there are alot of dynamics involved in design and construction, and then the interior details. anyway good luck in your search!
regards mike
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  #39  
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Good input thanks. For me banking is as simple as I can make it, direct deposit for income, and as much as possible direct transfer payments out, I write VERY few checks anymore what with debit cards and some credit card use. As long as I can get to an internet connection I can access the bank accounts.

I can pay cash for a boat, but looking at the YW lists that would be buying one and doing a several year refit, doable, but not my preference, a fairly small loan would give me more boat with a shorter refit list. An answer might be a smaller boat, most cash down with a small loan. Lately have been looking closer at the 37's because of that.

Yes, I've been on a number of boats, but most all wooden boats, I fell in love with a 37' wooden ketch. But the owner is probably going to live to a 110. Hope he does. Also as it happens my sailing experience has been on wooden boats. So these frozen snot boats are a pretty new world to me. I have seen several projects that look intriguing/attractive, but are certainly going to need a survey prior to making any kind of bid. This is one reason why plans are once this place is sold to get a RV trailer and hit the road looking at boats.

I am looking down the road for a pond crossing but mostly its as a live aboard and cruiser. I am fairly sure I'll be doing a couple years shakedown coastal cruising before trying a passage east.

What I am trying to do with all of these posts is to build up a mental or real checklist to evaluate boats when reading about them or looking at them. As someone else once said here brokers are stressing the cosmetics and leaving out the nice things like condition of thru-hulls and general sea worthiness. I will be a surveyors shadow on any boats I make a bid on. It'll be well worth the extra money to have him explain as he goes along.

I totally agree that the general feeling on stepping aboard and ambience is a major factor, but it can also cause us/me to gloss over some things that I shouldnt. I for one really have to be cautious on that.
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2006
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Theres been a number of good books suggested, last eve I went to amazon.com to scope out what is available, to date I had put a list together of 18 books, and expected to add more, of the 18 that I had listed, I found 13 in used, 'good as new' condition. Total including postage was $ 179.

Some of these I saw on Woodenboats.com bookstore at $ 30-55 ea. I think I got some good buys, will see when they arrive. As it turned out about a third are sailing and seamanship, a third on boat systems and a third on cruising and blue water handling/circumnavigating. There's 4-5 others I saw that I also plan on getting.

I already had 4 on the list and another six on miscl boats, so one thing for sure, whatever boat I get needs ample book shelving.
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