Easiest State Registration - Non-HIN ? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-29-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Thomas, USVI
Posts: 49
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
kaakre is on a distinguished road
Easiest State Registration - Non-HIN ?

Ok its a long story--- but I am wondering if there is a state that will register a boat to a non-resident without a HIN. Also, while I am at it - no taxes beyond registration.

It is a 1972 56 foot ketch that has never been registered in or entered the US. I have a valid bill of sale and am a US citizen.

Also, How can I apply for a HIN to import a boat? Is there a USCG form for this? Is an inspection always required?

Last edited by kaakre; 10-29-2006 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 10-29-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
HIN's weren't required until 1977 or so, so the fact that your boat does not have one shouldn't be much of an issue. Most states have some sort of excise or personal property tax for boats. USCG documentation is also an option, and may be cheaper in the long run than state registration, and in many states if the boat is USCG documented, they will waive the need to state register the boat. USCG documentation is a one-time fee, rather than an annual fee. In Massachusetts, you break even after only five or six years IIRC.

Are you planning on going to Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bahamas in your boat. If so, you will probably want to get USCG documentation instead, as it has some serious benefits when sailing in foreign waters. Some countries will not recognize a state registration as a valid form since states are not sovereign nations, but merely subdivisions of the USA. USCG documented vessels are flagged vessels of the US and have diplomatic, legal and financial considerations and protections that aren't given to state-registered vessels.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 10-29-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Thomas, USVI
Posts: 49
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
kaakre is on a distinguished road
I agree with most of Sailingdogs post regarding state versus USCG documentation. Some more info:

The boat is in South America and is registered in Europe. USCG documentation requires, among other things, a certificate of removal from the foreign registry as a condition precedent to the US documentation application. Obviously obtaining this document and getting through the USCG documentation process will take 3 months or more. But USCG documentation is my goal.

The only way that I can come up to avoid three months on a "boat without a country" in a bad environment is to do a registration in a US state. This is in spite of the fact that the boat may never enter US waters. When the US documentation shows up we celebrate, but in the meantime we need to sail North with something. Forgery?

HIN's in the US were implemented in 1972, are 12 digit and are required by most state bureaucrats and their boat registration software. It is a BIG deal in most states. Show up without one and they choke. If you know of one that doesn't care I would like to know.

Keith

Last edited by kaakre; 10-29-2006 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 10-29-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Get state documentation if you want to... IIRC, if you've applied for USCG documentation, you should be able to sail the vessel back, even if the USCG documentation hasn't gone through. I sailed my boat for a month, and was stopped by the USCG and it wasn't an issue. I had a copy of all the sale paperwork as well as a copy of my USCG documentation application with me and explained that while I had applied for USCG documentation, it had not been processed as of yet. They said it was fine, especially since I had all the required safety gear.

Of course, you should probably consult with an attorney that specializes in marine law for specifics. Going with a forgery is a really bad idea, especially in the much more paranoid post-9/11 USA that exists today.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 10-29-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
kaakre,

think about what you're asking...

"is there a state that doesn't care about..."
a)sales tax revenue
b) if the boat you're trying to title is actually yours or not...
c) doesn't care if you actually reside there.

Lets see if this flies....

Lets say that I live in Toadsuck, Arkansas, and show up in Tallahassee one day and say... "I've got this boat, right here, lookie this, ain't she pretty?, can I register it in your great state?

state worker: "sure, whats your address here in florida?"
me: "uhhh, I don't live here"
state worker: "ok, show me the title for the boat"
me: "uhhh, I haven't got one, but heres this wonderful bill of sale that I got in a South American country, oh btw, its currently registered in france, you read french don't ya?"

state worker: "So, bub,you don't live here, and tell me how I should know that the bill of sale wasn't made up on a pc using notepad and printer yesterday? and I don't give a tinkers da** about those frenchies.... what...? 'cuz you say so?
oh, yea, that'll work... NEXT!"
wait... no... "LUNCH!!!"

let me know how that all works out for ya...
__________________
We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 10-30-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Thomas, USVI
Posts: 49
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
kaakre is on a distinguished road
Toadsuck Cardaic

Hey there Cardiac,

Some answers for the boy from Toadsuck:

A) Most states do not tax boat sales between individuals. Resident applicant or non-resident
B) A notarized/certified bill of sale is required anywhere you go- resident or non-resident
C) Believe it or not-- all states register boats for non-residents but the requirements vary

At any rate now that we have finished our lesson in the basics--thanks for your help!

Guys like you provide a wealth of help and inspiration. Thats what these forums are for and we appreciate your assistance.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 10-30-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
If its going to have any type of a state registration, you can bet, that state is going to collect a fee.... be it named registration, casual sale of a motor vehicle, if its commerece, the state is going to get a cut.

notary... most of those are in the "states"... if you already have a bill of sale, is it notorized by a recognised US entity?
think about it, you show up with a piece of paper from another country, with some seal on it, how does the state recognise it as valid?

as far as registering it cross state.... operative word... STATE... and you better have a title. not a bill of sale.

thems the basics
__________________
We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 10-30-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Most states have excise tax or personal property tax of some sort for boats.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 10-30-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
florida:

Use Tax
Use tax is a component of Florida's sales and use tax law. Use tax applies to taxable goods and services that are brought into the state untaxed or taxed at a rate less than Florida's 6 percent rate. Discretionary sales surtax is also due on the first $5,000 of these purchases.
The "use" component of Florida's sales and use tax law provides uniform taxation of items purchased outside Florida but stored or used in this state. A credit for lawfully imposed taxes paid to another state, a U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia is permitted. Credit is not given for taxes paid to another country.
Example: If a boat is purchased in a state that has a sales tax rate of 4 percent, the owner may be required to pay an additional 2 percent when the boat is brought into Florida.
Under most conditions, use tax is due on boats brought into Florida within 6 months from the date of purchase. However, use tax may be due immediately upon importation into Florida, under either of the following conditions:
The boat is owned by a Florida resident.
The boat is owned by a corporation and used by a corporate officer or director who is a Florida resident or who owns, controls, or manages a dwelling in Florida.


texas:
Attention All Documented Vessel Owners

Effective January 1st, 2004 all recreational vessels, shrimp boats and commercial fishing boats 115’ or less in length, operating on Texas waters are required to be registered with the Sate of Texas.

If the vessel continues to be documented, the Texas registration “decal” must be attached and displayed in the appropriate place on the vessel. The Texas Registration number does not have to be attached and displayed on the vessel.

The Texas House Bill 2926, Legislative Session (78)R passed the House and Senate and was signed by the Governor of Texas June 20, 2003. The legislation took effect September 1, 2003, however, the legislation allowed the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department time to develop implementing instructions, procedures, update computer systems, etc.

Section 14(a) states “Not later than January 1, 2004, the Parks & Wildlife Commission shall adopt any rules necessary to implement this Act.”

An application must be made and the appropriate two-year Texas registration fee must be paid for the documented vessel. Vessel/Boat Application for Texas Certificate of Title & Registration can be found at http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/boat/pwd143.pdf

(You may need to copy and paste this address)

For a listing of Registration offices go to http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/boat/boatlist.phtml

A Bill of Sale that includes the sales tax paid or other acceptable tax document indicating that a sales tax has been paid on the vessel is required at time of application, along with a copy of the current USCG Documentation Certificate and registration fee.

If sales tax has not been paid, a Bill of Sale or invoice showing date of sale, sales price, description of vessel and/or outboard motor (make, TX or serial number and year built), purchaser(s) name and seller(s) signature is also required.


need more?

Louisiana: Any boat bought from another state and brought into Louisiana has to have sales tax paid on it to a state tax collector. You must send this in along with the original notarized bill of sale and proof of registration from the previous state showing the person you bought the boat from as the previous registered owner and a registration application along with the proper fees.
New Application
Proof of ownership - a copy of invoice from dealer or manufacturer's statement of origin. Proof of state and local taxes paid must be evident on the invoice, or application must be accompanied by an original Tax Certification Form (R-1331), signed and stamped by local tax office and Louisiana Department of Revenue and Taxation.

Boats coming into Louisiana from another state must have the out-of-state registration or title, invoice from dealer, or a notarized bill of sale with raised seal. In addition, if the boat is 10 or less years old, a completed original Tax Certification Form R-1331 is required. If out-of-state registration/title is not available, a certified original letter from the state that the boat is leaving acknowledging the status of the boat or documentation of origination of the boat is required.

Homemade boats without a Hull Identification Number (HIN) that are applying for new registration must go through INSPECTION. A registration application and an inspection application are required. Original receipts for materials indicating taxes paid must be provided at the time of inspection. Applicants for inspection of boats other than homemade must provide proof of ownership and a notarized affidavit of history of the boat at the time of inspection. DO NOT SEND ORIGINAL RECEIPTS WITH INSPECTION APPLICATION. THEY MUST BE PRESENTED TO THE AGENT AT THE TIME OF INSPECTION.

I'm tired...
__________________
We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 10-30-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 121
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JakeLevi is on a distinguished road
Paul
visiting boats also have to be registered with Texas ?? Or are boats registered in other states and based there exempt ? How do they base fees ? Percentage of boat value or a flat fee per foot ?

Next question, of NC, TX, which is the most 'boat friendly ' ? I have noted from others much more reasonable slip and mooring fees in TX. Although I could live at what I've been quoted in NC.

I'm just looking for a boat friendly state to base out of and to refuel/refit in.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foreign Registration by US Citizens kaakre Boat Review and Purchase Forum 17 02-24-2011 12:44 PM
Body may be remains of former state lawmaker - Rocky Mountain News NewsReader News Feeds 1 01-04-2007 06:56 AM
Former State Senator Bryan Sullivant - Summit Daily News NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-12-2006 02:15 PM
boat registration c172guy Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 1 05-14-2003 11:31 AM
Taking state registered boat to Caribbean? gnorbury Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 6 04-12-2002 11:18 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:11 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.