Pacific Seacraft

[mrwuffles]

no problem

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by arisatx

Oops - my bad.

It popped into my email based on a "Google Alert" I have active. Sorry about that guys.

No worries. I never tire of the Dana kite-cam, either!

[kwaltersmi]

In the almost 2 years since the original post, I've become a huge PSC fan. I could realistically see an Orion, Mariah or the newer 31 being my next boat.

Lately I've been sizing up salty bluewater cruiser in the ~30' range that can be had for around $50k. The boats that have floated to the top of my list are the Mariah, Westsail 32, Valiant 32, and Baba 30. I'm quite sure I'd be happy with any of the four and I can't seem to pick a front runner. The Baba is soooo pretty. The Westsail is soooo stout. The Valiant has a more modern hull/keel and supposedly sails the best. The Mariah seems to be a good combination of the other four, though I think it most closely resembles the W32.

[JohnRPollard]

Kwalt,

That's a good short-list.

Have you been aboard a Valiant 32 yet? If not, one observation I'll share is that we found the interior to be VERY tight. By comparison, our Dana 24 felt roomier. I know that sounds implausible, but something about the bright, open-layout of the Dana and the dark, cramped cabin of the V32 has an affect.

Over the years, I've increasingly felt that from a space- or roominess-standpoint, it's hard to make a strong argument for double-enders or canoe sterns below the mid-30 foot range. It's just that so much volume is lost by tapering the stern of the boat, that it's difficult to justify it - at least for those of us sailing with family aboard and trying to get the most bang for the buck. It would be a different story for a single-hander or couple.

By comparison, our present PSC 31 feels enormous compared to the V32.

[kwaltersmi]

John,

I agree totally about canoe sterns in smaller boats. Interestingly, the W32/Mariah/Baba all seem to carry a wide beam back very close to the very broad canoe stern. Conversely, I think that some of the newer Crealock PSC double-enders seem a bit smallish comparatively. For instance, I find that the PSC 34/37 don't feel roomy enough for their respective LOA's when coming aboard from a W32 or Mariah.

I have not been aboard a Valiant 32 yet. They seem to be quite rare, with only one or two on the market at any given time and none close to me yet. But I don't doubt your take on the cramped cabin given the very dark wood (mahogany?) and smallish portlights.

Something about the Baba calls to me, but then again it is in fact the smallest of the four and feels it in the cabin/cockpit. I'm sure it would be fantastic for just my wife and I but I tend to think it would feel cramped with two kids aboard. Now if I can find a Baba 35 in my price range...

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by kwaltersmi

...Something about the Baba calls to me, but then again it is in fact the smallest of the four and feels it in the cabin/cockpit. I'm sure it would be fantastic for just my wife and I but I tend to think it would feel cramped with two kids aboard. Now if I can find a Baba 35 in my price range...

Whatever you end up with, make sure it at least has a single quarter berth. When we compared the V32 and the Dana, we chose the Dana because it seemed to have everything the V32 offered (less the nav station) in a smaller package that felt roomier. At the time, our 3 kids were tiny, so a q-berth wasn't critical. But as they grew it became a necessity, hence we bumped up to the PSC 31, with the comfy double q-berth.

Also, I agree somewhat with your comments on the size of the PSC 34/37 compared to Westsail 32 and Mariah 31, but the latter boats usually lack the essential q-berths (I have seen some non-factory versions with q-berths, but very rarely). And I think you would find that the improved sailing performance of the Crealock designs would be hard to pass-up.

The search is half the fun!

[Winderlust]

kwalt, for what it's worth:

I had a PS Orion 27' cutter for 11 years until 1998 when I had to sell her. I would do just about anything now to get one back. Currently I sail a 10 foot dink sloop. I single handed my Orion to Santa Cruse Isl. off Ventura, CA for many multi nighters on hook and got caught in more than one Santa Ana event, 40+ with tight steep waves, in the Channel at night and in the day.

I always felt secure in my Orion, with it's real bilge, full keel and cut away foot. Crealock's name is not on it, but Pacific Seacraft sure learned from their relationship, with him. The Layup, joinery and hardware are classic PS.

There are Orions out there for sale and if you have a chance at one, I believe you will find them the best compromise of space and seaworthyness of any 27'. With good wind, it's a pretty fast little tank. Most do have their share of brightwork above: companion way, dorrad boxes, hand holds, rubrail, railcap, sampsons, etc; for good or bad.

Now for the blemish. A boat of that small stature that was built with much of the heavy stuff needed for a larger cruiser, put to starboard: galley, batteries, diesel fuel, and stuff gave it a slight list to stb. That required 150 lbs of lead bricks stashed low behind the port seatee to stand straight. Lead is pretty compact, as you can imagine, so as a cruiser, I never gave it a thought.

The cockpit is spacious, wine glass transom and good swim later, with a wheel helm. Mine was the standard qtr. berth to port and good size nav station stb; great storage all around. It had a trusty little 27 hp Yanmar and the hank on cutter rig made it a classic sailor, much cheaper than a BCC. Great boat! What can I say it was my only real cruiser. And now, as it turns out, love.

[kwaltersmi]

Good input Winderlust...thanks!

I'm an Orion fan, but my beef is the price. Most seem to be in the $40-50k range, which puts it in competition with the others (W32, Mariah, Baba 30, V32). If the Orion were in the $25-$30k range, it would be a real bargin over the others and make a lot of sense.

A few others I consider comparable to the Orion (at least in terms of size and seaworthiness) are the Shannon 28, Westsail 28, and Island Packet 27. A few others may qualify too (Southern Cross 28, Cape Dory 28), but I think they are just a step below.

I guess in the end it will come down to budget and getting the most boat for the money if I can put esthetics aside just a bit.

[imiloa]

kwaltersmi,

Lots of good information about some of the qualities of PSC boats - I certainly agree they're at the top of my list of quality built, beautiful vessels. There is very little said here, though, about their sailing qualities. I see you hail from Grand Rapids and I'm just across the lake from you. My understanding is that the boats being discussed here are all pretty heavy in displacement and take some serious wind to get and keep them moving. Seeing as we have so many light wind days during our sailing season why would you be considering a boat that, as I've been told, is built for sailing in conditions heavier than what we normally see during our sailing season here? I have always liked PSC boats (especially the Crealock 34) but have been under the impression they just need more wind to sail in than we typically have. Maybe I just have bad information??

[kwaltersmi]

imiloa - You're right...all the medium/heavy displacement boats discussed in this thread do tend to prefer heavy air and aren't necessarily the best for coastal sailing conditions like those found near my homeport most days. However, I plans to cut the docklines permenantly and head to the Caribbean and then to the west coast and if I'm fortunate, the south Pacific. I'm building an income from an internet business that I hope will provide enough cash flow to finance the adventure. However, the boat will need to be paid for in advance, thus my meager budget of something definately not more than $75k and probably more like $35-$50k.