YW listings, and then the real prices

JakeLevi · #1 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

I've found two listings on YW, of a model I have been looking for, both heavy on cosmetics , price seems about average for year and size/make, but both will need full sail replacement, one sails are listed at 28 yrs old, others slightly newer,

both will need other things I know of, like aux fuel tank added, low tankage. Sails that old some new rigging I am sure.

So, whats 'custom and practice' on offer to allow for known things needed right off ? Just the things I see on the ads mean over $10000. Thats without a survey. Both are I am sure dock dolls. Have had bottoms redone in past couple years.

Goodnewsboy · #2 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Just another opinion.

Start with a good survey and be present when it is done. (Before you engage the surveyor, check some references.)

Don't write anything off until you know why you must do so. There will be plenty of other things to spend money on. For example, my sailmaker told me that my 1982 sails are in excellent shape.

Estimate the market price of the boat after all of the necessary upgrades. Deduct the cost of those upgrades from your estimate.

Offer somewhat less than the adjusted estimate. Your time is worth something and the cost of upgrades always seems to grow.

sailingdog · #3 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Sails that were in storage mostly and not used much for 28 years may be in almost new shape... sails that were used for five years, left out and not protected from UV and raced may be in a lot worse shape. It all depends.

Get a survey...then look at the cost of the boat...the cost of the repairs indicated by the survey... and the cost of the things you want to change on the boat...and then figure out what you're willing to spend, to keep the cost of the money you have to spend after getting the boat within your budget. If they're willing to sell for that...buy it... otherwise, move on.

JakeLevi · #4 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Trying to make evaluations prior to going to look at them, one in TX, one in ME.

A survey almost, goes without saying, but right now trying to evaluate the ones that are worth going and looking at, as is have a list from NE to Tx.

Unfortunately most yacht brokers think listing the boat on YW is the extent of their responsibility. Thats like putting ads in Good Old Boat and not responding to inquirys.

camaraderie · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Jake... In my experience owners price their boats somewhat above what they expect to get for them and plan on reducing the price based on what they KNOW about the condition of the boat and because they expect buyers to negotiate. There are then 2 opportunities for negotiation:
1. Negotiation from the asking price based on same model sales prices which your broker can dig up for you. If the asking price on a boat is 120K and 5 were sold in the last year from 80-100K you can make an offer at the low or high end of that range based on your evaluation of the initial condition of the boat and the problems that are disclosed to you (like old & worn out sails). If the boat is pristine, the owner will probably hold out near the top end but there's a lot of room for discussion here.
2. Once your contingent on survey offer has been made and accepted, you can then evaluate the survey surprises and use those to further reduce the price based upon your "mutual" discovery of problems that weren't evident and need to be fixed.
The biggest problems usually occur in stage 1 where an owner is unrealistic about the true market value of the boat and is not sufficiently motivated to sell yet. Time is your friend here but it can be frustrating! The other problem is in selecting a boat that as little sales history due to limited production. In that case you have little ammunition to negotiate with except to point to sales and availability of similar boats.
What are you looking at?

JakeLevi · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Hi Cam
sounds like good advice,

with most boats going on the hard now things get a bit questionable on visits, good to look at bottoms, difficult on other things,

I'm looking at several Pearsons, and a couple others, at the moment I really like what I see of two of the Pearsons, lot of miles between them, probably when I start out will begin down south and slowly work north. Besides one Pearson that I like in Tx there are a couple others worth looking at.

VMacDonald · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

When pricing things up also bear in mind that some things can legitimtely be knocked off the price (e.g. poor sails, as all sailing boats need sails, or an tired engine) whereas others may just be your preference (e.g. and aux. fuel tank). If the additional tank is a common addition to the particular model then a deduction from the market price can be made if it's missing; but if the additional tankl is unusual or specific to your requirements then the 'market price' no doubt assumes that it's not there. It's a bit like a dark blue hull - people often pay more for that (assuming the paint/gel coat is in good nick) and so the market tends to value such boats a little higher. But if you don't like blue then you won't want to pay extra for it but may well get short shrift asking the seller to lower the price for you. Of course, if no-one else is biting then ask away ;-).

JakeLevi · #8 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Good points,

several of these do have low fuel tankage, which I figured was going to be my own upgrade, but, old sails is another matter. Ditto worn rigging etc.

right now I am on the wrong side of the learning curve but working on that, just got several books on surveying and inspecting plus more on cruising boats, hopefully by the time that I do look I'll be a lot more educated on what to look for then I do now. Having to wait for the winter to go look could be a blessing.

Is there any kind of a published record on what boats have sold for ? I noticed that on the size I am looking at the pricing is grouped pretty close on YW. But as Cam points out, after that then its the negotiation.

One of Nigel Calders books has a checklist for looking over cruising boats, its a good place to start along with a survey form when looking at a boat.

catamount · #9 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

Do not base your offer on the asking price. Decide how much you are willing to pay for a given boat, and base your offer on that.

xort · #10 (**permalink**) 11-13-2006

boat us will give you an answer on used boat prices. surf their website in the boat buying section. you send them an e-mail and they get back to you in a few days.