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Found A Boat We Both Love!!

8K views 44 replies 23 participants last post by  Sailforfun 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,
After a two year search, we found a boat we both love!! It's a Swedish Comfort 34, older, in excellent shape. We made an offer, are waiting to hear. It was in such good shape, with most things redone, I was thinking of skipping the survey. Bad idea?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...broker&&hosturl=brucehillys&&ywo=brucehillys&

EDIT: We just made the offer contingent on a satisfactory survey

2nd EDIT - the price is now that we can't get a loan - it's too low for a loan, and too high for the cash we have. And I don't have anyone who would loan me boat funds, not will the owner hold the paper. What a conundrum! We can get the Tartan with cash but my husband doesn't really like it.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...broker&&hosturl=brucehillys&&ywo=brucehillys&

I'd love your feedback!
Nancy
 
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#6 ·
Offer should have been 'subject to satisfactory survey' in the first place. The extensive teak decking would be my biggest concern.
 
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#10 ·
This looks like a nice boat in terms of layout and build quality. It does not look like a great boat for your sailing venue. Looking at its numbers this boat has a tiny sail plan making it a bad choice for the typically light air of summer lake sailing. And these IOR II boats were not very good heavy air boats as well. Adding davits and a single hanging off that pinched stern certainly won't improve the manners of this boat.

Good call on definitely doing a survey including the sails and engine. There is a lot of suspicious items in the listing and photos like only the cabin top having new teak decks, only one side deck being recored, water weeping at the keel joint, an old Volvo saildrive which had cooling water passages that are notorious for corroding out from those passages, only an older Kevlar mainsail (with any amount of use probably with little life left).

I am not trying to say don't buy this boat, as much as I am saying be cautious and go into this with your eyes open.

Jeff
 
#12 ·
I hadn't even thought about how this would sail in the air we get in Lake Champlain! Drats!

I'm still in love with the old Tartan we could get for cash, it's been for sale for two years, owner wants to sell, but my husband says its too tight inside for him. He's 6ft 7in, though, so unless we go to a 45 foot boat, everything is tight.
Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)
 
#42 ·
The older Tartans are popular on Lake Champlain. That's an attractive price. I'd expect it to be a little tired but probably worth some investment and work. It has a newer diesel, nice.

We sailed Lake Champlain for years. Most of our sailing was dead to windward or down wind without much reaching. Most of the boats there have large headsails and many, racing spinnakers(a lot of the sailors are racers, too).

I remember it was not unusual to run down the lake one day, and run back the next, as the winds tend to run up and down the lake(mostly southerly in season).

The sailing on the lake is very good. You often get very light winds but the water is usually flat during those conditions. It's a beautiful sailing ground. Good luck!
 
#13 ·
Jeff is correct, always be cautious. The basic design is fine, in my opinion. I have lots of friends who love their IOR design boats, but they do have their idiosyncrasies. Just consider it a classic!! That's up to you. I think the boat looks lovely. Is the interior what you like?? Have you had other boats? How, and where, do you intend to use her?

Really check out the deck and cabin top. Yes, they are redone, but that doesn't mean that they might not have issues. But at the price, you have lots of room for repairs/maintenance. (Not refering to your personal finances, but that it is a relativly low price for a boat of that size and sophistication.) I agree with Jeff that the saildrive is a potential problem. Get it checked out. It is always best to know what to expect before you actually buy the boat, then factor that work/money into the decision of buying the boat. A good survey can really help (hint: hire a surveyor with a reputation for being ultra picky and kind of negative - and who likes to talk a lot!! You'll get a more detailed survey.)

It's an interesting boat. Let us know how it works out. Good Luck!
 
#15 ·
Keep in mind some of these "re-done" things were done maybe 25 years ago, like the decks. Other 8 year old deck repairs - not bad but not "newly redone" plenty of time for new problems to develop.
Not saying don't buy the boat but have a survey done for sure. Lots of good older boats out there that were very well maintained and can be a good buy, this might be one of them.
 
#16 ·
Hi,
We like the boat because of the teak deck and the appearance - also, the interior is pretty roomy. Think floating hotel for us. We are novices - will just be doing daysails and coming back at night, or mooring in the lake in another marina. And I've been reading about IOR boats - most discussions seem to revolve around seaworthiness in blue waters. Not our worry at this point. ;)
 
#17 ·
A great looking boat. Life's too short to own a boat that you don't want to look back at when you leave it at a mooring.

The survey advice of course is right on. Having had a boat with teak decks I understand the appeal, but if you had to replace them it would and had it done for you replacement decks could easily exceed the purchase price of the entire boat. On the other hand, if the deck's aren't leaking, were replaced properly, the core was redone right, and there's lots of meat left in them, they could last a very long time. Sometimes they can be sanded down, re-cauked, and they become like new. The point of the picture with the quarter in it is to show us there's lots of meat left, that could be a good thing.

Yea and a long look at the sail drive is in order. Also a long look at the standing rigging. Relatively new Volvo on the plus side.

Best of luck. Hope the survey goes well.

Lots of apparently well priced boats become not so well priced when you add up the required repairs. Go in eye's wide open with the help of a great surveyor.
 
#18 ·
There is nothing good about a teak deck except if you like the looks, but after many years a caring for teak decks they just do not look good any more. all I see is the splinters that have been removed, the burned feet, the many hours of upkeep, the stains on the gelcoat from the teak oil, the deck leaks.
made it very happy day when that boat sold because I was not going to have to recore the deck and replace the teak.
 
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#19 ·
That's not exactly a radical IOR shape so I wouldn't place much emphasis on the anti-IOR comments.

The small "North Sea" rig would concern me a lot more - a 14 SA/D is getting down towards motorsailer territory. If you won't be sailing in an area where the wind blows over 20 pretty consistently you will be flying a 150 all the time and still needing more.

I agree with the teak deck comments - I love them and have laid one but I wouldn't have one again - I learned my lesson. Fiberglass and stainless steel on deck for me from now on.
 
#23 ·
It the ratio of the boat's sail area (SA) to its displacement (D) (weight)

Most racer cruisers come in around 18 - 20, high-powered lightweight flyers 23-30. Anything under 16 is going to be a tad hard to get going in light air.

It was not unusual for boats designed and sold in the Europe/North Sea area markets to be 'under rigged' due to the higher likelihood of stronger winds. When those boats end up in lighter wind regions, they'll suffer.

But it's only a big deal if you're racing or, like me, hung up on boat speed all the time... ;)
 
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#21 ·
Sail Area to Displacement ratio.

It's the "horsepower to weight ratio" of sailboats.

The lower the number the smaller the rig relative to the displacement of the boat. It's what's known as a "dimensionless number" so the scale applies to boats large & small - a 20' and an 80' can both have the same SA/D ratio.

14 is very low - IOR boats in North America were generally more like 17. Contemporary cruising boats are in that ballpark and racers start in the 20's and go much higher - I've heard of them in the 40's.

Brewer explains the various ratios here:
Ted Brewer Yacht Design
 
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#25 ·
I agree the Cat 36 is a pretty good cruising boat with one of the best interiors around.. but if I were choosing between these two (assuming equal condition/issues) I'd be hard pressed to pick the Catalina over this one. As good as they are for what most of us do, they are a bit 'bland' compared to some of the other offerings of that era.

We were in a similar situation over a decade ago, and went with the somewhat more interesting boat, (IMO). And most of the time we sail by the Catalinas. However that's not to say the Catalina isn't a great boat for most and if a good one is in your area it's worth checking out.
 
#26 · (Edited)
While some posters will want to compare this design and quality with other boats on the grounds that they are all 'sailboats' there are actually large differences.
You will hopefully find that the "Comfort" is faster than the raw numbers will indicate due to a better sailing-designed hull form.

Having said that, you still need to move to the next step after finding a boat with 'good bones' and look at specifics of maintenance after several decades. It's challenging to survey a teak deck for potential moisture penetration through a thousand screw holes.
Some time later most builders started laying teak decks in epoxy and this problem was solved.

Although all boats over X number of years of age will still need to have all deck fittings re-bedded.
That sail drive needs a separate survey, imho. Volvo used to want the gaiter replaced every 7 years. I do not know if that dictate came from their engineers or their attorneys. :(

Good luck on your purchase.
One other feature not addressed so far is the extremely high "row away factor" number of boat like this one!
:)

Regards,
Loren

ps: in this age of "floating RV's" it's awesome to see a cockpit laid out for actual sailing... especially short handed sailing for small crews. Traveler is low-effort and right where it belongs.
 
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#27 ·
While some posters will want to compare this design and quality with other boats on the grounds that they are all 'sailboats' there are actually large differences.
You will hopefully find that the "Comfort" is faster than the raw numbers will indicate due to a better sailing-designed hull form.

Having said that, you still need to move to the next step after finding a boat with 'good bones' and look at specifics of maintenance after several decades. It's challenging to survey a teak deck for potential moisture penetration through a thousand screw holes.
Some time later most builders started laying teak decks in epoxy and this problem was solved.

Although all boats over X number of years of age will still need to have all deck fittings re-bedded.
That sail drive needs a separate survey, imho. Volvo used to want the gaiter replaced every 7 years. I do not know if that dictate came from their engineers or their attorneys. :(

Good luck on your purchase.
One other feature not addressed so far is the extremely high "row away factor" number of boat like this one!
:)

Regards,
Loren
I have been following this thread and my mind kept going back to that sail drive. Without an inspection/sea trial by a mechanic who knows this particular sail drive, I think you are rolling the dice. The thing could be just fine, but what if it's not?

I start to pass out when I wonder what the replacement price would be...
 
#28 ·
Hi all,
After a two year search, we found a boat we both love!! It's a Swedish Comfort 34, older, in excellent shape. We made an offer, are waiting to hear. It was in such good shape, with most things redone, I was thinking of skipping the survey. Bad idea?

Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)

EDIT: We just made the offer contingent on a satisfactory survey

2nd EDIT - the price is now that we can't get a loan - it's too low for a loan, and too high for the cash we have. And I don't have anyone who would loan me boat funds, not will the owner hold the paper. What a conundrum! We can get the Tartan with cash but my husband doesn't really like it.

Bruce Hill Yacht Sales, Inc. (Shelburne, VT)

I'd love your feedback!
Nancy
Just noticed your edits... Not to get to personal, but how far off from paying cash are you? It's a 1983 boat. Financing get's harder as the years go and the price drops. Most people just get a personal loan at this price/age point. Offer him what you have, or ask him to wait a month while you live on Raman Noodles and (gasp) cheap bourban in order to come up with another couple grand.

Boat loans are kind of funny, it's more like buying a house than a vehicle. My bank does boat loans and you would have thought I was financing a cruise ship. They won't give you financing without insurance, they won't sell you insurance without proof of financing, it went on and on with silly stuff... fax this, fax that, new pay stubs, it took a friggen month.

...and forget what I said about cheap bourbon, life's too short for that kind of silliness.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Well Nancy, these are boats that are quite old, listed with a broker may give the false assumption they are "worth" selling.

The Tartan would be the better choice.

The "other boat" with Saildrve even with new Volvo should be enough to send anyone away IMO.

Top of my list would always be; keel, rudder, hull, decks, 2nd on down; engine rigging & all other systems.

Make a decision! Lol.
 
#31 ·
Well Nancy, these are boats that are quite old, listed with a broker may give the false assumption they are "worth" selling.

The Tartan would be the better choice.

The "other boat" with Saildrve even with new Volvo should be enough to send anyone away IMO.

Top of my list would always be; keel, rudder, hull, decks, 2nd on down; engine rigging & all other systems.

Make a decision! Lol.
I love the Tartan! It needs more spiffing up, but I did some research and it's a real classic. And seem solid!

Thanks!
 
#32 ·
I have been bit by the boat bug so many times I have lost count. Falling in love with a boat is always tough. My first love was a San Juan 24. She broke my heart when I couldn't trade a 1972 Dodge Coronet for her.......


Anyway, this may not be what you want to hear but sometimes love just isn't meant to be. Don't force it. One of my favorite quotes (and most comforting in times of boat love) is "boats grow on trees". There are tons of them out there! Comes out of a great book by Mark Nicholas called "The essentials of living aboard a boat". I just checked and there are something like 27000 sailboats just on yachtworld. If this one doesn't work, that's ok.....there are 26999 more :) ... and I will admit that your choice looks pretty nice! Just make sure you check it out 100% and don't get blinded by the bug.

ps, I have to remind myself of this practically daily as we are in shopping mode as well.
 
#33 ·
Gets easier once you accept that there is no perfect boat, never been on one where everything is the exact way I would have done it.
There is always something that needs attention and or $s, even if it's just doing a light sand and applying a coat of varnish.
I don't want to own an ugly boat, but I'll trade some looks for function. I'd rather make it to my destination in a plain Jane boat than run into problems with a pretty one I shouldn't have bought.
Unless I win a lottery and money is no longer a concern......then hello 2016 Hinckley SW 42!
 
#35 ·
Hey Nancy, just looked at the tartan listing. You know, in terms of risk of a surprise in survey, that boat is much simpler therefore the risk goes down. Also, ownership costs go down. No sail drive, no teak decks, etc. Yea, it ain't quite as pretty to my eye, but with a bit of work, much of which is stuff that's well within your capabilities, you could get that thing looking real nice. Clean up that teak, compound/wax, etc. Engine is old, but I've seen universals like that still running. The price difference is substantial which leaves a lot of room.

If you decide to go that way, don't neglect the survey. Even though this is simpler, and IMHO more likely to work out, there still could be surprises that exceed the purchase price to fix. I know it seems crazy to spent $500-1K on a survey as a percentage of purchase price; however, think of it as avoiding the potential of spending $10's of 1000's to make it right.

And to quote others, make a decision and buy something! We can tell you want to! Life is going by. Tick, tick tick goes the clock. Time is the only thing none of us ever get back.
 
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