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post #1 of 13 Old 07-08-2016 Thread Starter
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C&C 30 v. Express 30

I'm looking for input from sailors who have sailed the C&C 30 (Mark I) and the Goman Express 30 for comparison purposes. These boats have similar specs. Are there significant differences??

Also, for the C&C 30, I'm looking for input from sailors who have sailed the standard version (draft 5 feet) versus the shoal draft (4'2"). Theoretically, the former should be more weatherly, but is there really a significant difference in actual sailing performance?

Here on Lake Erie, the PHRF difference is 6 seconds (i.e., 177 for standard keel versus 183 for the shoal draft).

Considering for the purposes of coastal cruising the Great Lakes.

Thanks,

GRR
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post #2 of 13 Old 07-08-2016
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

No input for the Express.

I owned a 30 MKI (5 ft draft) for 12 years. Great boat, stiff, points well and lots of fun to sail. Well built, but as with all boats, there are some things to look at during survey. The shoal draft is rare around New England, I don't think they made nearly as many. Cncphotoalbum.com is a great resource for information and the C&C email list is a fantastic forum for asking questions and getting answers in a jiffy. They are getting on in years and you can find them at (what I consider) very good prices.

I never raced mine, but I believe the 30MKI is an easy boat to sail to it's PHRF as long as you have good wind. In light air you need big headsails to stay competitive.

In heavy air the boat just digs in and keeps plugging along at hull speed, even if you have up too much sail. I never reefed my main, I would often just forego it and sail under jib alone.

I now own a C&C 30 MKII and learned to reef this boat early.

C&C Yachts have a cult following. Once you are in you don't get out. Ever.

Given the choice between shoal and standard draft, I would go with the 5 ft version unless you have a specific reason to go with the shorter keel.

Rob

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post #3 of 13 Old 07-09-2016
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

I have no experience with the Goman Express 30, but it's a newer design than the C&C 30 MK1 and rates considerably faster (PHRF in the 120s to 140s depending on version). I would think it compares more to the C&C 30 MK2 which is a similar vintage and has PHRF numbers that are close, at least in the deep keel version.
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

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No input for the Express.

I owned a 30 MKI (5 ft draft) for 12 years. Great boat, stiff, points well and lots of fun to sail. Well built, but as with all boats, there are some things to look at during survey. The shoal draft is rare around New England, I don't think they made nearly as many. Cncphotoalbum.com is a great resource for information and the C&C email list is a fantastic forum for asking questions and getting answers in a jiffy. They are getting on in years and you can find them at (what I consider) very good prices.

I never raced mine, but I believe the 30MKI is an easy boat to sail to it's PHRF as long as you have good wind. In light air you need big headsails to stay competitive.

In heavy air the boat just digs in and keeps plugging along at hull speed, even if you have up too much sail. I never reefed my main, I would often just forego it and sail under jib alone.

I now own a C&C 30 MKII and learned to reef this boat early.

C&C Yachts have a cult following. Once you are in you don't get out. Ever.

Given the choice between shoal and standard draft, I would go with the 5 ft version unless you have a specific reason to go with the shorter keel.

Rob
Thanks Rob. I'm the proud owner of a C&C 32 and she is a pretty good boat. Having said that, I have developed the seemingly rare condition of "reverse 2-3 foot-itis" and I am considering moving to a smaller boat (27-30 ft) for the sake of ease of handling and lower cost of operation/maintenance. My girlfriend is a tiny lady and is just getting into sailing, so the easier a boat is to handle the better. I've also realized we don't need a huge amount of space for just the 2 of us. It is seeming to me at this point that the simpler the boat the better. I realize the C&C 30 may not be the solution as the sail area is nearly the same (I think about only 3 sq. ft less) as the C&C 32. Some of it is that I have just always admired these boats and nearly had one until the deal fell through at survey and I ended up eventually with the 32.

I'm considering boats with fractional rigs too, but they seem to be harder to come by.

As to the shoal draft, what I have learned in my 4 seasons of sailing here on Lake Erie is that your draft can limit some of the harbors you can get into. Some sailors on Sailnet have suggested in other threads that drafts above 5' are limiting, especially as the water gets thinner in the Fall. Opinions vary of course. As we look to cruise more going forward, it would be good to have the peace of mind of knowing that only the skinniest of waters would be a problem.
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

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I have no experience with the Goman Express 30, but it's a newer design than the C&C 30 MK1 and rates considerably faster (PHRF in the 120s to 140s depending on version). I would think it compares more to the C&C 30 MK2 which is a similar vintage and has PHRF numbers that are close, at least in the deep keel version.
Thanks Jim. That is a good point about the comparison to the C&C30 MK II that I had not thought of. I don't know as much about the MKII.

I just stumbling upon the Express 30 in a different venue and thought it might be a good option. I've also been intrigued by the Freedom 30 and the J28.
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

Interesting that you are considering moving down in size from the C&C 32. My previous boat was a 30 footer (Cal 9.2) and I don't find my current Cal 33-2 any more difficult to handle. Costs are similar except when it comes time to replace things like sails.

That said, there are a lot of 27-30 foot boats out there, though more are older as there are less of them being built today. New boats of that size seem to be either light bare-bones racers or cruisers designed only for maximum accommodations below, with the dual-purpose racer/cruiser a thing of the past. Coming from a C&C (one of the great builders of racer/cruisers) I suspect you wouldn't be happy with the sailing performance of some of the pure cruisers. Choose wisely.

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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

Yes, I take your point regarding handling differences between the 2 classes. I'm still thinking this all through and getting input from others.

I doubt I would choose something from the purely cruiser category. It would almost certainly be a racer/cruiser.
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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

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Originally Posted by Grand River Raider View Post
Thanks Rob. I'm the proud owner of a C&C 32 and she is a pretty good boat. Having said that, I have developed the seemingly rare condition of "reverse 2-3 foot-itis" and I am considering moving to a smaller boat (27-30 ft) for the sake of ease of handling and lower cost of operation/maintenance. My girlfriend is a tiny lady and is just getting into sailing, so the easier a boat is to handle the better. I've also realized we don't need a huge amount of space for just the 2 of us. It is seeming to me at this point that the simpler the boat the better. I realize the C&C 30 may not be the solution as the sail area is nearly the same (I think about only 3 sq. ft less) as the C&C 32. Some of it is that I have just always admired these boats and nearly had one until the deal fell through at survey and I ended up eventually with the 32.

I'm considering boats with fractional rigs too, but they seem to be harder to come by.

As to the shoal draft, what I have learned in my 4 seasons of sailing here on Lake Erie is that your draft can limit some of the harbors you can get into. Some sailors on Sailnet have suggested in other threads that drafts above 5' are limiting, especially as the water gets thinner in the Fall. Opinions vary of course. As we look to cruise more going forward, it would be good to have the peace of mind of knowing that only the skinniest of waters would be a problem.
I went through the same thing before I purchased my 30MKII, but never followed through. I was getting tired of overnight "camping" in my 30 MKI but didn't want a bigger boat so I was going to get a smaller boat and stop sleeping on the boat so much.

I could not afford a more modern designed boat that I felt was still sporty enough for me. I even started looking at J24s that I could winter store on a trailer.

I got on board a 30MKII and that was the solution. Bigger mainsail so it's still fun with a smaller headsail, all lines lead to the cockpit, aft cabin, walk through transom, big head located aft, beautiful salon with comfortable dining for 6, but a smaller V-berth and a U shaped galley that is tight, but functional.

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Cool Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

Well, it is a relief to know that I am not being completely irrational in my thought process. JimsCAL has a good point about differences in handling between his 30 and 33 and certainly on the face of it it would seem there should not be much difference.

So the 30 MKII is still a masthead sloop, but with a relatively bigger main to headsail square footage relative to the MKI??

I think this is where the idea of a fractional rig also is appealing, but like I say, it seems like these are harder to find. I know the Tartan 33 has a fractional...obviously not a smaller boat.

In any case, I'm taking my time and not committed to any particular decision at this point. I have a good old boat and I'm not taking that for granted.

On a completely different note, I noticed that you sail out of Noank. I went to Narragansett Bay to learn to sail a number of years ago and I drove out on a week long road trip looking at boats for sale the week before. I stopped to look at a boat at Spicer's in Noank. What a beautiful area!!!

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Re: C&C 30 v. Express 30

One fractional rig 30 footer that I have experience with is the J30. Good friend just sold his that he owned for about 30 years. I daysailed on it with him a quite a bit. Fast (PHRF in the 140s), stiff, and a very usable cruising interior with a propane stove with oven. His was one of the later ones with cockpit coamings while on the older ones you sat on the deck like a J24. His sold for $13.5k I believe.

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