Beneteau 440 - Moorings 445

[gilsurf]

We are in the process of purchasing a 1992 Beneteau 440 (Moorings 445) 3 cabin-3 head model. It was a Moorings boat and then sold to a 2nd owner who upgraded it in 2004-5. Upgrades:

• New Yanmar engine and transmission
• Upgraded wiring
• Slew of Raymarine electronics
• Mainsail
• More...

I am interested in others' reflection on this boat, good and bad points, issues to look for, etc.

We are a family with 2 kids, 2 and 5 years old.

Thanks!
Gil

[camaraderie]

http://www.boats.com/content/default...contentid=7755 provides a review of the boat design by Bob Perry.
The questions I would have are:
1. How has the boat structure fared in charter. Many charter boats are treated roughly by the renters with groundings common...So you need a good inspection of the hull and keel by a surveyor who will take the time to do it right.
2. Why would someone dump $30K or so into a boat and then sell it? Did he have a personal situation that forced it or was the "upgrade" necessary o sell the boat and what else might be "hiding"? Could this be a hurricane boat that had to have engine and electronics replaced due to water ingress?
3. What is the age and condition of the standing rigging after 15 years?
4. Is the boat in perfect condition suitable for your cruising needs? Where are you going with her and is she designed to thrive in those conditions and support a family. (Example..fuel tankage would be light for extended blue water passages.)

Don't mean to sound negative...just trying to insure you ask the right questions before plunking down a lot of $$. Hopefully you will have good answers on all and get a boat that is perfect for your family and fun to sail.

[sailingdog]

A twelve-year old diesel usually isn't in need of replacement... an overhaul maybe, but replacement? Sounds like there's more going on than you've been told. I'd agree with Cam that a good survey needs to be done at a minimum.

[I-33]

I know charter boats take a beating, but the "upgrades" seem excessive to me. Something just doesn't sound right. I agree wholeheartedly with getting a good survey!

[gilsurf]

Thanks for the thoughts, esp. from another Gil in the world They are all good ones. Yes, it seems like the big Q is why were the upgrades done, esp. the motor and tranny after 15 years. Electronics are usually minimums on charter boats, so those upgrades seem reasonable. The rig looks to have been updated recently. As to water entry, other areas do not show this... systems at same level as motor show age (pumps, water heater, etc.). But this is one to look into.

Of course we will have a thorough survey done, looking closely at structural components.

Why selling: Owners live in Carib and decided they do not use the boat enough to warrant the expense.

As for our cruising/living situation, sorry to not have provided this earlier. We will live aboard in St. Thomas (already live here in a house) on a mooring and cruise the Caribbean. No bluewater passages planned. Fuel =40 and water =200, so yes, fuel would be an issue outside of the Caribbean. Power will need to be upgraded to solar/wind (currently relies on high output alt) and a watermaker added. OW, systems are all set and many new.

We had looked at older more robust cruising boats (ex. Morgan 461), but the bank requires a newer popular boat such a Beneteau for resale reasons.

Thanks again and Happy Holidays!
Gil

[longwaterline]

Boat could have been a submarine.

[gilsurf]

And still have the interior parts looking like they have more age than a few years?

[labatt]

Originally Posted by gilsurf

We had looked at older more robust cruising boats (ex. Morgan 461), but the bank requires a newer popular boat such a Beneteau for resale reasons.

You might want to go to a bank that specializes in marine loans. A Beneteau will have a fraction of the residual value after a few years that a better built boat will. I'd consider a Beneteau "First" series, but the residuals on any other model will be very low. If you WANT one of the better built boats, perhaps you can bring documentation to your bank showing the higher values of better built boats. Good luck with your purchase!

[camaraderie]

Gil...sounds like you're doing your homework and it is well suited to your cruising plans and family size. I wouldn't worry too much about resale cause if you get a good deal on her future depreciation should be minor on a 15 year old boat. Hope ya get a good survey result!

[S/VNirvana]

If you are purchasing a Moorings boat and you have seen all the replacements; it is because the owner went through a phase out program probably with a qualified surveyor and indicated these thing had to be replaced. I am a Moorings owner of a charter vessel and have kept on top of the maintenance of our vessel. Last year I did not like the way the heads were acting and complained about checking/replacing the joker valves and instead of repairing them they replaced all 4 heads. The moorings in Tortola has a very good maintenance program and if the owner and the surveyor indicate items to be replaced or repaired at phase out The Moorings usually does it. The condition of the vessel according to my contract states it is to be removed from the program in an AS NEW CONDITION.

Try www.sailonline.com for more info on boats being sold from The Moorings and other charter companies. They have a forum that you can join to speak with owners.

Sonny
s/v SKYLARK For Sale
s/y NIRVANA, M494