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  #1  
Old 11-30-2001
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NADA''''s prices

I am seriously considering buying a Tartan 42. Not being able to find any recent sales, all I have to guide me is NADA''s price and the asking price. BIG DIFFERENCE. The broker tells me that the book prices are not accurate. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-01-2001
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NADA''''s prices

When most people think of BUC or NADA price guides for boats, they think of them as being similar to the Kelly Blue Book pricing for cars. In other words a compendium of sales prices for a large number of boats, and therefore an accurate reflection of the marketplace. In fact, there are comparatively few sailboats sold in this country in a given year and the price guides only reflect actual sales prices of boats sold by brokers. While there is some very subjective input on the boat''s condition, by and large there is such a small sample and so little supportive data, that these pricing guides tend to be quite useless on less common boats or boats where condition and equipment can vary widely.

I am going through this with my Laser 28 which I am selling. BUC shows Laser 28''s substantially lower in price than my asking price, yet all of the Laser 28''s that have sold in my area have sold for more than my asking price, and were in equal or worse condition. All of the offers that I have had were close to my asking price. It is my understanding that BUC has this artifically low price that reflects the selling off cheaply of a fleet of Laser 28''s that had been used in sailing school and which were really trashed. It does not reflect many of the recent sales which are higher priced and did not include a broker.

I have also seen it go the other way where one really pristine and heavy loaded example of a design has biased the number way higher than a more normal example of the class can sell for.

So while you need to take the BUC or NADA with a grain of salt when considering a less than frequently sold design, it is a useful tool on more common boats. There is another problem in that Lending Institutions seem to depend on these books to determine loan to value ratios. Years ago I had a deal go sour when the bank relied on a value of a boat that I was trying to buy that was almost half of what these boats were selling for and I was willing to pay.

Jeff
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Old 12-15-2001
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NADA''''s prices

Umpy: Check the website databases for Yachtworld and Traderonline to get a much better feel for boat values.
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Old 12-16-2001
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NADA''''s prices

Umpy, I presume you''ve joined the sailnet
Tartan list. The gang there can help you out
a bit. No, you don''t see many 42s for sale, so it may be hard to get a fix on what''s
reasonable.

Last year I bought our Tartan 33 (1980) for
20% less than asking price but about 10% more
than "book". The boat was in good shape for
its age and very well equipped. We thought
since the NADA price estimate was low it would be a negotiating point. It wasn''t, since all involved knew the estimate was
low.

Perhaps the most valuable tool in negotiating
was roughly determining the POs outstanding
loan balance. Folks like to at least pay the
mortgage off and come away with some change
in their pocket.
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Old 12-17-2001
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NADA''''s prices

I have been finding the NADA prices on the low side of people''s expectation and the BUC a bit closer. As Jeff pointed out above, the published values are most accurate for production boats that have quite a few sales each year.

The BUC listing have the explanation at the bottom for adjustments based on the condition of the boat.

All in all, many boats have been selling for above their BUC value over the past few years because the economy and the market were very good. Those days are over. Keep in mind that many boats over 15yrs old are asking more than they cost new. And, perhaps most importantly, when you go to sell the boat a few years from now... ALL the potential buyers will be pointing out the book value to you and beating you up over it.

One thing I have found instructive is the Practical Sailor book that gives original prices for boats and their price curves. Very interesting.

My personal opinion is that the BUC values are a little behind the curve and we are in a buyers market right now.

Hope this helps
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Old 12-17-2001
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NADA''''s prices

For better or worse I think you are wrong about it being a buyer''s market. There really does not seem to be a surplus of good clean boats out there. I have been helping people who are looking for good boats (as a hobby and not for fee) and there is pretty slim pickings out there and the good ones seem to sell pretty fast. Especially compared to the old saw about it taking a week or two per foot of boat length to sell a boat.

Jeff
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Old 12-18-2001
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NADA''''s prices

You are right about the inventory of boats. A quick survey shows about 63,000 listed on boat trader vs 85,000 just a few months ago. That really is a very significant drop (consider that there will be a base number that just sit and the smaller % of good ones sell).

Still, there are a lot of boats that have been on the market for well over a year, sometimes three. So, I think it really depends. No question the best boats do go fast. A Farr 38 like yours will be at a premium. I do think they are going for less than they would have two yrs ago.

For someone looking for a more common boat, that does not have the needs that you and I and many other people do, it can be a buyers market. For example, anyone wanting a classic plastic 70''s Pearson 35 or even a 80''s Morgan 38, any Bene/Hunter/Lina can pick and choose and set their own price.

Jeff, by the way, I found my boat! Put a contract on her for a very good price and we are negotiating. Your postings and personal letters were invaluable. I don''t want to mention it here ... but will tell all when the deal is completed. Has been an interesting year. I appreciate your consideration.

Thanks

John
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Old 12-18-2001
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NADA''''s prices

I am thrilled that you have a deal going and I an really delighted if I was able to be of help to you. Good luck negotiating.

Regards
Jeff
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