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  #11  
Old 12-31-2006
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visit deltaville

Pops,

Load up the missus and head over the bridge to Deltaville...plan on crawling over at least 20 boats, then get lunch (or dinner) and talk it over.

We bought a really nice, older Sabre 38 that would fit your budget and still leave a bit in the kitty for repairs, addons and the like.

Another option would be head over to Norton's in Deltaville, ask for Mike and tell him what you have told us. Although they sell a bunch of new Hunters, he usually has some good brokerage boats or can point you in a direction. Tell him dave sent you.

all the best, we are up in Callao but sail the bay often.

dave
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2006
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Pops,

We took the ASA 101 class 2 1/2 years ago, and bought a 1988 Catalina 27 with a tall rig, wing keel, inboard diesel and indoor plumbing which we sail out of the Patuxent River. She has an icebox, a two-burner stove, and a hot water shower, but no oven or air conditioning.:-) We've done several week long cruises on the Bay and with a 3 1/2 ft draft, can get in just about anywhere. I'm sure we could sell her now for what we paid for her. (of course, there has been a steady flow of boat bucks since then.:-))

There's something to be said for learning on a simple boat. We took a weekend trip the weekend after we got her. Bigger boats do offer more amenities. Some additional things to consider (in no particular order):

1. Comfortable berths
2. Sufficient headroom
3. Place to put the dinghy
4. Access to engine, stuffing box, transmission, steering

The Chesapeake Bay is an absolutely marvelous place to learn to sail. It would be a shame not to take advantage.
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2006
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I vote you look at the Catalina 30, or even the 27, which still has plenty of room for a weekend out on the bay.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2006
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Hello,

A few points (a few made, a few not):

-IMHO, a boat over 30' would be too large for you. The sailing part would be OK, but docking, anchoring, reefing, etc. can all be 'challenging' and the bigger the boat, the more effort, skill, practice, etc. required.

-There is no way I would spend even close to 60K on a 'first' boat. You don't know if you will like sailing, or what kind of boat you want, or what size boat, etc. There are lots and lots of very nice boats available for around $20K. IMHO, you should start at that price. Then if you love sailing you can easily move up. If you don't like sailing, it will be easier to get out.

How many people will be sailing with you? How many people would over night with you? In all likely hood, a 25-30' boat would be more than sufficient. Once you get to the 27' and larger size you get all the important amenities - diesel inboard power, pressure hot and cold domestic water with shower, galley with propane stove, real marine head, comfortable berths, etc. A 27-30' boat would be perfect for 2 people and acceptable for 4 people. More than 4, or for longer than a week would require a bigger boat.

There are lots and lots of 27-30 boats available. Catalina, Hunter, O'day, Pearson, Newport, Tartan, Sabre, etc would all meet your needs.

Good luck,
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Curragh, 1986 O'day 35
Mt. Sinai, NY
lenoble@optonline.net
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2006
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(slap! slap!) Thanks!! I needed that!!!

Is this a great list or what? I very much appreciate the cordial welcome and all of the thoughtful responses and will be adjusting course accordingly. Crawling a couple dozen ~30' boats in Deltaville while we sign up for the next set of courses (followed by a romantic dinner...) does sound like the prudent course to be followed in order to arrive at the destination (without winding up like Capt Queeg).

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again for the great suggestions. Sure beats memorizing boat reviews...

Pops (Joe F.)
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2006
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Popeye-
I'd suggest getting hold of Practical Sailor's (newsletter) books on used boat buying, if only because there is no other source where you can find 50 detailed reviews of boats, from multiple owners as well as the reviewers, in each book. The comparative comments give you a broad look at the plusses and minuses of many boats, and an eye for things to consider overall.

On the wife's seasickness...It happens! I find the best cure is to just get out on the water, the more often you are out there, the more your body gets used to it. And you'll know you've really gotten used to it when you come back ashore one day and get LANDSICK because the land is NOT ROCKING. Honest!

Many things work for many people, from the plain elastic wristbands with buttons in them (to stimulate an acupuncture point on the wrist, and the placement of the button must be right or there is no effect at all) to the electric Relief Band gizmo (which is even FDA approved for morning sickness, and proven to do something for a lot of people). Plain ginger was tested and found effective by NASA, because it opens up capillary blood flow. Scopalamine is available by Rx--strong meds but beloved by those who use it. Explore the options, get a surplus of sleep and avoid alcohol and tobacco for 48 hours beforehand...and there's every reason to think she'll have no problem, one way or the other. Tell her not to be macho (femmo?) about it, grab the bull by the horns and refuse to be queezy.

I think you'll also find that most folks don't put enough value on the sails themselves. Good new sails make a huge difference in how a boat performs. Sails that have no plastic calendaring (coating) left on them, sails that feel nice and soft, usually are blown out of shape and you'll want to budget to replace them. You don't need to go wild (unless the racing bug bites you) but sails are the engine--and old blown out sails are an engine with half the cylinders gone.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2007
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One more thought (actually two) on your potential Admiral's potential lack of enthusiasm-

First, (I know you were planning on this already) she will enjoy sailing more if she takes the same classes you do.

Second, we know a woman that is prone to seasickness. She and her husband bought a PDQ32 (a catamaran), because she found the motion to be more comfortable, and they are now in the Bahamas for the winter. I understand that not everyone finds cats more comfortable. They do sail upright, which may help with nerves and making lunch. They are also relatively shallow and continue to gain popularity. Just something to consider...
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2007
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I appreciate the most recent advice re seasickness and classes. We will definitely be signing up together. Admiral Olive is actually warming up quite nicely to the whole notion now. We have a related question re shoal vs. deep keel preferences in the Chesapeake

The admiral and I went looking at various sailboats over the past week, being open to 30's of various ilks. We are now concentrating on the Catalina 30. We were also impressed by the Sabre 28 (but the lack of an inside shower put the C.O.’s nix on it).

How do people feel about getting a deep draft vs. a shoal draft in the Chesapeake for daysailing, weekending, family gunkholing? The best boat we’ve seen so far (this one has the admiral positively excited) was mislabeled as a shoal draft but, unfortunately, it was in much better condition than the others we’ve seen and, of course, it was equipped perfectly for what we were looking for.

Turns out the place where we would keep it, both dock and channel, looks like it might be able to accommodate a deeper draft (most in-season low tides should be only a few inches low for the last 50 feet or so, which I assume could be “corrected”?).

It seems like the shoal draft would provide a lot less worrying/more freedom to explore without getting stuck (the Catalina 30 is 3’10” vs. 5’3”); whereas I assume the deep draft does provide somewhat better sailing performance (mainly the closer hauled upwind performance, I'm guessing. Anything else?)

This boat is also the short-rig version, FWIW.

If only this boat weren’t so positively perfect otherwise (Admiral O’s words…)

Any thoughts? Should we be seriously considering this boat if we find no comparables or are the shoal draft/tall rigs worth holding out for IYHO’S for Chesapeake family sailing?

Any experience with short-channelling? (or whatever it's called -- NOT what Shirley McLaine does) Does it really work or is this a version of a maritime urban legend? Practical limits?

P.S. Almost all of the shoal drafts currently for sale are in MD for some odd reason, the deep drafts largely in VA (must be a coincidence, I assume…).

Thanks in advance!

Pops

Last edited by iwannabepopeye; 01-06-2007 at 09:46 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2007
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We sailed for nearly 20 years on the bay with 5'4" draft and nnever finished exploring all the places we could go. Of course there will be a few spots you can't get into...but I find the 4' draft sailors go aground just as often as the 5' draft ones! I would prefer to have the tall rig for the bay but a nice drifter will move you along in the light airs...so make a deal with the admiral to let you get one if you buy the boat for HER!!
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2007
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Popeye, everything in sailing involves some kind of tradeoffs. Maybe you should take a look at some charts (don't have to buy them, many libraries have a map/chart collection hidden away, but you can buy them to plan ahead) and see what kinds of places you might want to get into, and what draft there is in them. Also, potential dockage and marinas. If the marinas in your area don't have six++ feet of water in them at low tide...you'll be wanting a shoal draft boat!
The folks with deep draft boats say the shoal draft folks can't follow them upwind as well. True. But the shoal draft boats will gladly show you how the deep draft boats can't come gunkholing. Then there's the folks with centerboards, to make sure you can have a good THREE way argument.
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