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First boat advice solicited/mid-Chesapeake

9K views 42 replies 20 participants last post by  sailingdog 
#1 ·
My wife and I are new to boating. My problem started with visits to both Annapolis boat shows a year ago when I signed up for a subscription to Sailing magazine (the young girl was persistent). Though we've lived in MD or VA all our lives, we've never had anything to do with the bay that didn't involve eating. We've just hit 50 and I think I'm hitting a mid-life or something.

Well, last year we actually managed to swing a weekend/eventual retirement cottage with a dock and 4 1/2 feet of water and an easy 2 mile transit to the bay (opens into Fleets Bay). The dock, of course, has a big empty place that's killing me. We took an intro to sailing course last year on a Flying Scot that we both enjoyed (though my wife may possibly be prone to seasickness). We even bought a little stinkpotter (15' whaler) in April that we both love. We have ventured out a little bit in the bay on her (between the Potomac and Rappahannock) but she's really too small to go out very far except on a very nice day.

The problem is that I keep hearing some sort of subliminal siren call from over the horizon (are there sirens in Onanconk??). I've got 4 (4!) quasi-grown daughters aged 20-28 (who I'm finding were overly influenced by "Jaws" and "The Perfect Storm") who think that I've lost my mind. And I have to admit, I'm beginning to drive myself crazy.

My illness was greatly exacerbated by an article I read a couple of weeks ago by John Kretschmer in Sailing that talked about the plethora of used boats currently available for great prices. The Tartan 37 (with its 4' 2" draft which just so happens to match the gaping hole on the dock had smitten me). Jack Horner's review didn't help (though most of the T37 reviews seem to be about 10 years old, I've noticed). I've been fixated on her from afar for a couple of weeks now.

I've been absorbing Calder's "Intro to Cruising" and Kretschmers "Used Boat Notebook" over the holidays and we've actually gone to see a couple of T37s. The thing that bothers me about her is: 1. The lifelines only come up to my knees. 2. The nagging gut feeling that maybe we're getting in over our heads.

Which led me to start to fixate on an IP31 or a Nonsuch 30 (motivated by Kretschmer's book) over the last day or so. But then I saw the Catalina 30 vs IP31 thread on this forum last night and the seemingly good advice of focusing on light wind performance in the Ches. My oldest daughter also pointed out to me that Flying Scot owners seem to be rabid about FS's, Tartans about T's, IPers about IP, Nonsuchers about nonsuch, Catters about Catalina. Arrghh!! (<--- cry for help). How is one to know??

Neither my wife nor I are particularly athletic (both out of shape but not hopeless). We are interested in daysailing/weekending in the Chesapeake. We don't REALLY know if we're born to be sailors (she confesses in weaker moments she's probably a closet stinkpotter) and I the last thing I want to do is to buy something that will be a chore rather than a pleasure. We don't want to sail the world. I can probably scrape up $60k or so through a home equity loan to feed my disease, though would prefer to spend less.

Given these criteria (daysail/weekending mid-Ches), not a boatload of maintenance, good seakindliness, good safe platform for bay sailing, beginners - willing to learn but more interested in daysailing or cruising than the fine points of racing, ticking testeronical clock (I knew men must have one), and the siren call of the Eastern Shore, what SHOULD I be looking at for a shortlist of boats (again, T37, IP31, Nonsuch 30 is my best shot so far)?

Any other sanguine advice from this august group gladly solicited.

Joe F. (aka "Pops" wannabe)
 
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#27 ·
T37Chef said:
CBinVa is right on about running aground in the Cheapeake...it will happen no matter what draft you have. Our first little tinker boat had a draft of 2'...yup, ran her aground a enough times.
This being the case would you recomend against getting a wing keel for the Bay? I've read in many places that they can be hard to float off since healing only deepends the draft.
 
#28 ·
stlcat22 said:
This being the case would you recomend against getting a wing keel for the Bay? I've read in many places that they can be hard to float off since healing only deepends the draft.
I have a Benetoy 28ft with a winged keel (btw, it will be for sale sometime next season - if anyone is looking for a fun and non-taxing bay boat, then - drop me a line).

I ran aground once in the last season, it was not a hard grounding - just stuck in mud, as happens to all of us around here (admit it :) ). Wings do get stuck stronger than regular keel, I was unable to motor off on my own. There was virtually no wind, so I could not try anything else. Fortunately, a powerboat was passing by, we threw them a line and were off and sailing in less than a minute :)

On the other hand, I do get to use shallower slip at my marina which saves on docking fees. The draft of my boat is just under 4', and due to that savings in slip cost are nothing short of $1000/year. That makes a lot of difference.

As far as groundings go - if you don't want to rely on a good samaritan's help, get unlimited BoatUS towing and they will come pull you off for free :)
 
#29 ·
Probably out of scope, but-

Towing insurance is definitely recommended. The shape of the keel makes no difference when the engine dies when you are in the middle of the shipping channel on a windless day. The big ships don't stop for anyone and I understand the rates are pretty steep for scared sailors that didn't plan ahead.

Running aground is usually pretty simple though. If you can't power yourself off, someone usually comes along shortly that can help. And sort of by definition, you probably aren't in anybody's way. Personally, I've never seen anybody get frustrated enough to try to heel their boat off the mud.

Carrie
 
#30 ·
Wing Keels are PERFECT for the Chesapeake

Popeye -- First, if you want to know the scoop on living with wing keels on the bay, do a search here on Sailnet. Lots of threads about it -- and lots of misinformation. Read my tag line. I'm sure I'm the longest serving contributor to this BB who sails with a wing. I now own a Pearson 33-2 that draws 4'2". First boat was a P-27 that drew 3'4". Bottom line is -- if you run aground with a winged keel you aren't going to die despite what some on here will lead you to believe. I probably have run aground a dozen times down through the years and have always gotten off by myself within a very few minutes. Heck, if the water is only 4 feet deep I can jump out and push!

As for your quandry with a dock with 5'3" of water, and a channel that has about the same for a distance -- you need to find a boat with less draft. Not being able to get into your slip at low tide is one thing. Being stuck 50 feet from your slip at low tide would be especially aggrevating. I suggest looking for a boat with either a wing, a bulb (many of which also have winglets), or a center-board.
 
#33 ·
iwannabepopeye said:
Thanks, all, for the continuing advice. Looks like I'd better pass up this one. Sigh...

Pops
If you don't find anything else by the beginning of the season - contact me. I am thinking of selling, but what I'd like to offer is this - I'd be glad to take you and your family on a few daysails. So if nothing else this would give you an idea of what you like and what you don't like. And if you happen to like mine - I'll be glad to sell it and finally trade up :)
 
#35 ·
The deed is done...

To fill you all in -- after much ado (and despite the cataragging) we decided that the Catalina 30 was the way to go. It had the right combination of what we were looking for : stable, perky, affordable and maintainable by a swabbie, good room for whatever crew comes along (sort of the "minivan with a 6 cylinder" of the Bay).

The tall rig/wing keel was the combo that made the most sense for us. We probably looked at a dozen and a half or so boats -- basically every Catalina 30 north of Portsmouth in the $20-40k range over the winter (and were unimpressed with the condition of most). We also found out the shallow draft keels were kind of hard to find. We put in offers on three boats, none of which panned out for one reason or another until mid-Feb when a fourth offer was accepted (on a 1987). Got it surveyed and sea tested right in the mid-March thaw. Closed on it last week. Finally!

Also found out that trying to stick to $20k wasn't reasonable for that combination of rig and keel in this area this past winter -- it came out closer to $30k for what seemed to be reasonable condition to us.

The raves from the reviews in the archives and on this list were a big factor in our choice -- the amount of boat for the money/popularity/prevalence of repeat Catalina customers (again despite the ragging and anti-winged keel bigots ;-) Eh, my new brother Mitch?

One thing we found that seemed to be useful in the bb process -- it's the trade-ins that seem to be in the best condition (because they are sold by an active sailor trading up). There are an amazing number of neglected boatyard queens out there (some of which did actually sell and several of which dropped the asking price dramatically over the course of our shopping odyssey).

What worked for us was talking to a number of brokers and letting them know that we were looking. During the slow period probably helped. When a trade-in came in one of the brokers remembered and gave us a call -- the boat we finally wound up buying never even got advertised.

I want to thank everyone on this list for the helpful and friendly advice you so generously gave. It made a *huge* difference in helping us refine what (hopefully) was the right first step for us.

Whew, buying a boat is a lot of work. We met a lot of nice people along the way, though... I guess trying to do it offseason didn't help, but it seemed like we'd been working at this for quite a while. Luckily, now that we bought it, there won't be anything to do but sail it :rolleyes:

Happy Sailing!
Pops (and Olive)
 
#36 ·
Congrats on the new boat...
 
#39 ·
Good deal! I think you made a great choice of boat that will serve you well as you explore the bay and "learn the ropes" (pardon the pun).

I'm looking forward to finishing our boat up and launching, hopefully by the end of the month. Some unexpected serious illness in the extended family has us a bit behind, but we'll be starting our second sailing season by early May at the latest. Over the winter we got ourselves fully equipped for long weekends on the hook, with a dingy to explore and a bbq grill to whip up some grits (that's generic for food where I come from). ;-)

See ya' on the bay -- SOON!
 
#43 ·
Cruisingdad said:
Pops,

Going Catalina show that you are an intelligent man with an eye for a real yacht. WELCOME TO THE FAMILY!!!!!

- CD
Hmmm.... might you be just a teensy bit biased.... given your signature... ;)

I think we should change your name from CruisingDad to CatalinaDude.
 
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