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post #11 of 42 Old 01-15-2007 Thread Starter
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boats continued

Good thoughts all. Thanks. We are also considering renting a liveaboard if we can find one. Any thoughts here?
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-15-2007
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renting a liveaboard is generally not an option. Most owners can't rent their boats out as it would violate their insurance and probably requires some additional paperwork. Most boats that are capable of being liveaboards and possible to use without owning are charterboats...and the cost of chartering a boat for full-time, liveaboard use is prohibitive.... much more than the cost of owning your own boat in most cases...

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #13 of 42 Old 01-18-2007
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given your requirements and your experience, I'd look around for the old reliable catalina 30 or alberg 30. One can be had in your price range and if you find your dream a little "waning" after a time being, they're relatively easier to sell.

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

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post #14 of 42 Old 01-19-2007 Thread Starter
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Boat search continued also Sailing question

I like Alberg 30s though they are getting pretty old all of them. Still certainly on my shortlist.
Thanks for the tip on the Golden Hinds. They may very well be at the top of my shortlist for a second boat. Currently there aren't many around and they are just slightly out of my price range.

Still I can help but gravitate toward the aleutka and the folkboat which is crazy I realize since both are not even close to ideal liveaboards and the rest of the family would kill me. Nonetheless, I found a restored wooden folkboat with a trailer for with an asking price of 15k and two aleutkas at 7 and 9k respectively (no trailer but easily done on a flat bed b/c they are bilge keels).
The thing for me is ultimately a boat is both a practical and a soulful purchase. I think this is why the folkboat and the aleutka appeal to me. Especially since the folkboat is wood!! They've both got character...

Also, anyone have any thoughts on sailing schools in the bay area-- there are other threads pertaining so don't feel too obligated to answer.


Thanks again for all of the good advice and insights.
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post #15 of 42 Old 01-19-2007
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With all of the other balls you are juggling, I would hope a wood boat would scare you. Wood is a great material--but it also requires constant high maintenance, or else you sink one night. And if someone didn't do the restoration exactly right, didn't use exactly the right fastenings...you may need to remove and replace thousands of them, while drydocked.

Wife, baby, med school, wood boat...No mortal could juggle all of those without seriously neglecting more than one of them.
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post #16 of 42 Old 01-20-2007
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I'd second Hellosailor recommendation against wooden boats... even a fiberglass boat, if it has a lot of brightwork, will take a fair amount of maintenance.... a wooden one takes far more... and you'd spend more time maintaining it than sailing it.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #17 of 42 Old 01-20-2007
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Thumbs up

Why is 30 the benchmark length and not say 35? I have all of about 1 hours sailing experience, once on a hobie cat @ the beach, and twice in a rental trimaran in a lake where I managed to tack a few times. I just learned what a Jib was yesterday. I guess I am asking the question to learn something for myself.

I have also learned that a 30' @15k will could more than likely wind up costing you another 10K or more in the near future if. The budget factor could take the pleasure right out of pleasure cruising if you like any typical family live on a tight budget.

With an infant on board single-handed is the key word. Knowing first hand how 100% attention is never enough for a child, you or the misses may find yourselves, single handling the boat more often than not. The beauty of it is that there are two of you.

The beauty of raising a child with two parents is that you can split the duties somewhat, but with a boat can be a baby on its own, trying to keep that lamb from screaming can be a full time job, between the boat and the baby I foresee stress in the near future. How is your relationship, is it capable of withstanding the brunt of this new lifestyle? A 30' foot boat will seem like a 1o' boat when you consider 2 screaming babies and a nagging wife needing a break, while your trying to do your homework, I hear your education could be a full time Job. Dude I suggest getting bigger boat.

Babies, school, boat, 3 full time jobs, now where does getting a job to pay for all 4 of your living expenses come into play, if she works then now you 2 will have 4 full time jobs, and that means you will more than likely inherit a babysitting expense as well as the lions share of taking care of the baby, considering that a baby sitter could almost negate nearly half of the money being made? Say your girl gets a gig making $12 hour after taxes etc etc etc you may have $325, afte a babysitter you may have 125, and after dinner out you may have enough to fill up your gas tank.

May I ask why your selling the house? Because this is not even including the many many other worst case scenarios, like your girl bailing on you and the kid because she just can't take it no more, or you having to drop out of school... A young couple and a baby, living aboard the confines of a 30 foot boat?

"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." Shakespeare

I suggest you 3 spend a month living aboard a 27 foot boat, before even attempting this maneuver. Stress can make the boat smaller and smaller, might as well get a taste of what living aboard even a 35' boat will feel like in about 4 months of moving onto it with a baby.

If you were my son I would more than likely be talking you out of it, marriages are hard enough to manage without forcing yourself into a crunch. Where you are going to find that all too important time to nurture your marriage, in the midst of everything else you are going to be obligated too, then there is that all too important solo down time you both will need, besides sleeping of course.

I am sure you have heard the expression there is not enough time in the day, well add all the elements involved with this new lifestyle there is not only less time, but less space. I suggest you find a boat with an aft cabin where either you or the wife can have a place of refuge because you will need it, especially to focus on your homework, as I imagine you will have a ton of it.

Contrary to what Budda say's our passion's truly can be a virtue, if they are counter balanced with reason. Balance is the key here, how are you going to balance all the time each object in your life is looking to possess, while incorporating the brutal yet surreal elements of nature to the equation? Marriage, school, baby, and a boat, sounds like a novel. Where does the money factor in this equation? It just does not add up to me, but I am looking forward to hearing to your reply.

As crazy as a notion your predicament may appear to me, I am sure mine may come off as being even crazier to you. With all of 1 hours experience sailing, and less than a months research on the matter, I have already sold my house, picked out my boat, and looking forward to sailing her down from NY this spring.

Dreams do come true, but like that old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
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post #18 of 42 Old 01-20-2007
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JagsBCH-

Boats increase in size geometrically, to the cube of the length. A 35' boat is about 36% bigger than a 30' boat, even though it is only 16% longer. The sails are more difficult to handle, as is the ground tackle. Anything smaller than 30' is generally too small to comfortably liveaboard.

The Alberg 30, one of my favorites, is actually a fairly room boat for its size and used by at least two bloggers I know of as a liveaboard for couples with a single child.

For instance, an Alberg 35 weighs in at 12,600 lbs., and has a 100% sail area of 545 sq. ft. The Alberg 30 weighs in at 9000 lbs., and has a 100% sail area of 410 sq. ft. Handling the mainsail on the Alberg 30, which is 221 sq. ft. is fairly reasonable for a single person. The main on the Alberg 35 is approximately 50% larger, and significantly heavier and harder to manage. Another problem is that boat costs generally go up with the length of the boat. An Alberg 30 averages about $16,000, while the Alberg 35 averages about $26,000.

Also, many of your cost: hauling out, dockage, painting, storage; are related to the length of the boat... The equipment on a larger boat is also more expensive... the winches are larger, the ropes are heavier, etc.

Finally, for a relative novice, a 35' boat may be a bit too much to handle, especially short-handed.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 01-20-2007 at 10:29 AM.
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post #19 of 42 Old 01-20-2007
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Jags... I agree with everything SD said except the last sentence! Properly set up...a 35 ft. boat is easier and safer to singlehand than a 30footer...except in docking under power. What kind of boat did you get??
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post #20 of 42 Old 01-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Jags... I agree with everything SD said except the last sentence! Properly set up...a 35 ft. boat is easier and safer to singlehand than a 30footer...except in docking under power. What kind of boat did you get??
Actually, it really depends on the boat... some 35' boats may be easier than some 30' boats—others would not be...

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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