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  #11  
Old 01-17-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff H
My ideal boat would be the ultimate coastwise cruiser.
dman - he wasn't talking about a bluewater boat.
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Ontario 32 - Aria

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Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2007
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That is a nice write-up Jeff. I figured it was written for a different purpose (and my guess is your refelctions between Catalina/Hunter/Bene) probably was written beforehand too. But I still enjoyed it.

You know what I find absolutely amazing? That boat is way off of what my perfect boat would be! No offense at all - your boat is TOP notch. I find myself so focused on the interior that I am less concerned with the other aspects (from the start). Interior is probably more important (to some extent, this can go too far).

My first question always starts down below. "Can I live aboard this thing? The kids? The dogs? What kind of storage, etc." Then if the inside is very comfortable, I go to the outside and see what I have to deal with and take a guess at how she would sail and handle the weather. My guess is that you start just the opposite. But it is all about intended purposes... and I think you said that.

You want to know why there are sooo many different boats out there? Because everyone's idea of the perfect boat is a little/lot different. It is nice to see different opinions (and why). I urge anyone interested to put their perfect boat down too. For me, Hylas 54 or Mason 54. Again, I start with the interior, and move out.

Now this is beautiful:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ck&searchtype=

Again, I urge anyone interested to post their perfect boat and why. (No need from you, Giu, I think we know your perfect boat).

- CD
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2007
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CD,
In response to your post,

I start with sail plan and simplicity to sail short handed.

We are costal/Great Lakes Cruisers; I do most of the sailing myself and everybody else is along for the ride. I don't need a rocket ship, but don't want a slug either.

After that, comfortable cockpit, nice galley, generous sized nav station (and I prefer forward facing but could live with others), comfortable main saloon, two cabins, (one for the kids and one for us) and one of the most important features of a cruising boat....... a large head.

Sea berths mean nothing to me.

I always have enough water; except when somebody wants to shower, and I am at most fifty miles to the next fuel dock, if I run out of fuel,......... well I must just be on crack..

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  #14  
Old 01-17-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Well, I'm going to shoot myself now....So...its not the perfect boat??? Damn...

As far as the discussion on bows...I had a few laughs!!! Get real...!!!
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2007
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I did want to touch on Dman's comments, especially for offshore work.

You need to go back in history if you want to see what boats built for comfort looked like and when you do you find that most had nearly plumb stems. If you look at traditional working craft in the general size range that we are discussing, that were built over the past few hundred year they almost always had nearly plumb stems. This is especially true of working water craft in the worst sailing environments. I consider the designs of traditional working craft highly evolved to meet the conditions that they were working in and the technology of their day.

It was only under the influence of very late 19th century and 20th century racing rules that led to sailboats having short waterlines and long overhangs. As a seakeeping feature, longer overhangs have a lot of disadvantages. At the very time, when the racing rules were first pushing towards longer overhangs, dedicated cruisers were still purposely designed with nearly plumb bows solely for seaworthiness and motion comfort.

In terms of the height of the bow, there is a big difference in behavior between the way that large ships (that can span the length from crest to crest of a wave big enough to produce a 30 foot height) and a 40 something footer (that is occupying perhaps only one eighth of the length of the wave.)

Freeboard heights like so much in sailing evolved as a proportion to the length of the boat. There is a good reason for that. The height of the bow of a boat only needs to be as high above the water as the curvature of the wave surface that is likely to be encountered in length of the boat plus a bit more to allow for momentum. Higher windage and tophamper at the bow is a negative and so traditional watercraft, offshore cruisers and performance boats that are not designed to some race rule, generally have lesser amounts of freeboard forward.

Plumb bows came back into use again in the late 1980's, but really came into their own in the early 1990's as race boat designers began to look at motion as an unrated element within the racing rule. Designers concluded that the more a boat moves and the harsher the motion, the more turbulence is produced and the less efficient the keel and sail foils became. The motion studies showed that plumb bows allowed designers to produce boats with less motion and a more gentle motion, and since motion was unrated, better motion control offered an unrated speed advantage.

For those of us who are cruisers of all stripes, this research on wave action and motion comfort has important implications for the comfort of the boats we sail as well. The hull modeling that came out of those studies allows the boats that we sail to offer a motion underway that is less tiring on crew members and less stressful on the boat as well.

I also disagree with Dman's " You don`t get chop in most ocean conditions anyway". Some of the worst chop occurs out in ocean in places like the Gulfstream, Bay of Biscay, or as one approaches the Atlantic coastal shelves. But beyond that, to me, a boat that is suitable for offshore work should be optimized for distance cruising, and in my mind distance cruisers need to be comfortable in such choppy venues as the Bahama Banks, the great Capes, the Bass Straights, the south western Carribbean and the Indian Ocean approaches to the Red Sea.

Respectfully,

Jeff
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  #16  
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Jeff, still that was a funny coincidence, wasn't it??

As far as the bows and motion I don't even discuss it....(as you guys say in the US "been there done that", for real, in the water, not from books....
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2007
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Like CD, when I started looking at a boat to retire and live on, I pretty much started from the inside out. Though draft and mast height were part of the equation. After 3 years of looking, I had the Ontario 32, Morgan 323 and Mirage 32 at the top of my list. Though I did look at a Niagara 35 (older version) and a Hunter 320 (as I was familar with their boats). As a singlehand liveaboard, I find the Ontario to be just what I wanted.

It has all the space I need, with room for one more if that should happen. It's easy to sail by myself and though I haven't put it to a real offshore test, seems to have a comfortable motion underway. The only thing I'd change about it is the 13 hp engine. It can seem a bit underpowered in a strong current. A swim step and carrying more of the beam to the stern would be nice, but far from vital.

So, for me, and what I'm doing, and intend to do, I have my perfect boat.
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Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


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  #18  
Old 01-17-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBzeer
Like CD, when I started looking at a boat to retire and live on, I pretty much started from the inside out. Though draft and mast height were part of the equation. After 3 years of looking, I had the Ontario 32, Morgan 323 and Mirage 32 at the top of my list. Though I did look at a Niagara 35 (older version) and a Hunter 320 (as I was familar with their boats). As a singlehand liveaboard, I find the Ontario to be just what I wanted.

It has all the space I need, with room for one more if that should happen. It's easy to sail by myself and though I haven't put it to a real offshore test, seems to have a comfortable motion underway. The only thing I'd change about it is the 13 hp engine. It can seem a bit underpowered in a strong current. A swim step and carrying more of the beam to the stern would be nice, but far from vital.

So, for me, and what I'm doing, and intend to do, I have my perfect boat.
PB, yes, right.

Really in fact what it boils down to is we all think our boats are almost perfect, because that is what we chose...from mine ,to yours to CD's Jeff, to a Mac, they all serve a purpose.

We chose our boats based on what we want and need, and that, is what makes it perfect. No one is forcing boats on anyone....at least that I know of.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman
Look at any 700 foot ship that is designed for rough seas and they all are raked.
Actually, I think they are bulbous.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2007
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I just find it interesting what people look for and why. Why do you like that? Like the plumb bow. I would not have guessed about the motion and have changed my perception of them. It seems I learn something every day. That goes back to why I was urging everyone to post what makes their perfect boat... even the type if they have found it. Maybe in all of this we can all learn something new.
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