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1987 J28 Keel issues

9K views 20 replies 10 participants last post by  SHNOOL 
#1 ·
Greetings All,

I am new here. Have visited and observed this site for many years. However, never posted.

I recently looked at a 1987 J28 in south Florida selling for $11,800(are you kidding me?)
The price was ridiculous low and had been for sale for many, many, many months(red flag).
I recently decided to spend my Sunday morning, going to take a quick look at the boat. The boat is on the hard " and motor winterized", etc etc.

Getting to the point, the over all look of the boat was great for a 1987 J28. I did not go onboard or below because owner was not present.

The keel had cracks on the upper portion of it, close to where it connected to the hull. The cracks were forward and aft, a couple of few inches in length, not more than a toothpick wide.
Potentially catastrophic? I have seen sailboats lose theirr keel in a race, not pretty....

There was a small gauge in the bottom of the keel about halfway from the leading edge, starboard to port, not very significant on underside though, not very big, perhaps 2-3 inches in length and not more than 1/8 inch deep at most.
Hard to determine how extensive the cracks were, and describe exactly without showing photos(which I have).
I did not look inside and below because the owner was not present.

Question:
is it potentially worth spending the money and possibly repairing and/or replacing keel?, depending on the extent of the damage/cracking etc etc.
offer less than the listed price?
not even worth the time and money?

Please! Comments, questions appreciated...any advice and assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks.

CKH1
 
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#5 ·
The information you provided is not exactly helpfull, no pictures or anything. Good boats sell for market value - usually fairly quickly.
Junk boats, even cheap ones sit....until a sucker with big dreams comes along.
Nobody is going to be able to tell you much more, it would all be guesses.
 
#6 · (Edited)
There is no certain way to answer your questions without seeing the boat and carefully examining the keel stub inside and out. But also your information about the sale price and length of time on the hard tells us absolutely nothing about this boat.

I personally really like J-28's. These were wonderful boats for thier day.

But a boat like the J-28 would be a hard sell in Florida having an unusual interior layouts, the perception that J-Boats are racers yet a racer would not buy a J-28, and J-28's are a little deep draft wise. $11,700 is not all that cheap for this model. This is a 30 year old boat in Florida which is harsh environment for boats. And even if there wasn't these kinds of factors, few boats sell in less than a year.

But as to the keel cracks, the gouge may be a clue since that is a pretty deep gouge and may be from a hard hit on something solid. But it could be a pretty gentle abrasive wear pattern against the lead ballast. Similarly, this could be the normal crack from aging caulk that is quick and easy fix. But it could also be damage to the keel stub from a grounding or other cause.

If​ I was interested in this boat I would contact a broker and go aboard with the broker. I would look in the bilge for signs of cracking around the keel bolts and the framing, and/or movement at the keel bolts.

If that all looks okay, I would contact a surveyor and find out what it would cost to do a limited survey of the keel stub, hull coring, and deck coring.

If that boat seems like as good a deal as you seem to think it is, I would contact the broker, explain your conerns, and I would make an offer with a multi stage contingency, Stage 1 would be the limited survey. Stage 2 would be a full survey and sail trial.

Jeff
 
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#8 ·
As Jeff said - you will need to look inside for delaminated floors, loose tabbing, crazing or other damage. We hit a rock at better than 5 knots with our J/36 and had to have some grinding and rebuilding of the keel stub -- but there was no interior damage. The keel essentially squashed the aft end of the outside of the stub a bit. We had to remove the loose stuff and fill it back in, then smooth it all back. The J/28 is NOT a racer, so the market for them is not as hot as some other J/boats. Not too many of them were built. It can also be wise to remember that boats are for sale for various reasons, and that some sellers are more eager than others. Someone who likes his boat and wants to keep it may promise his better half that it is indeed for sale. He may also be hoping that for his asking price, no one will buy it. Others may simply have invested too much into their older boats and be trying to make the buyer pay for what they've spent - even if the "new" sails and engine overhaul they got are now 10 years old. So they're asking too much. This may be an estate sale, and the kids in CA and OR are tired of paying yard storage bills. Find out as much as you can.
If you decide that the design is right for you, a good surveyor will be worth every penny. Worth every penny if you decide to buy despite what he finds out for you, and worth every penny if you decide not to buy because of what he finds. YOU have to make the decision, but you need better information than can be provided online.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I've surveyed quite a few J's. My bet ... Those cracks probably indicate keel movement which results in core separation which leads to water in the core which leads to horrendously expensive (i.e. not worth it) repairs. Get a really, really good surveyor to inspect the bottom with the proviso that the survey will only proceed once bottom condition is determined. Many surveyors will charge for time only (should take no more than an hour) if the survey goes no further.

On the other hand ..... sometimes there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
 
#10 ·
Thank you to all that replied with thorough suggestions and ideas. Very helpful! :)

I do have pictures if anyone is interested.

I have also contacted the seller for additional information regarding the keel etc etc.

I will keep you posted as I move forward with this J28.
 
#11 ·
Seeing pictures might certainly help refine the comments being made. Because of security concerns the forum rules required that you will need to have made at least 10 posts before you can post pictures. The easiest way to get 10 posts is to add to the song chain: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-topic/30244-song-chain.html

But of course, as a moderator, I hope that you will get your 10 posts by reading some of the active threads and contributing to them. ;)

Jeff
 
#13 ·
I would consider any separation at the keel most likely a reasonably repaired situation, as long as the frames are not damaged. Wet decks or wet hull laminate, now you are talking real money.
J28C are a very desirable boat thar routinely sell for $30k or so. I suspect the owner will happily explain why the boat is listed so low...but a low price does not make the boat a good deal or even a fair deal. More likely the opposite...
 
#15 ·
Jeff I think you off on your pricing, here are 5 from a google search, I just clicked on the first links that appeared, no searching for high prices. They range from about 26k to 33k all 1987 boats. These are asking prices and WILL sell for a good bit less. But not in the 10 to 15k range unless the owner is very motivated. The are all on the eastern seaboard from Florida up to New York.

1987 J Boats J/28 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1987 J Boats J28 sailboat for sale in New York
1986 J boats J28 sailboat for sale in Connecticut
1986 J Boats J 28 sailboat for sale in North Carolina
28 foot J Boats 28 | 28 foot J Boats Sailboat in E Rockland Key FL | 4430221859 | Used Boats on Oodle Classifieds
 
#16 ·
Lets take the above 1 at a time shall we?
1 from top is about 6 months old, and is listed on the J28 users group (so likely a real boat)
2 from Top listing is 6 years old... 2011, lets say the boat sank, or was sold, or is otherwise, "unavailable."
3 from top is 3 years old.. and I've talked to the owner 2 or 3 times and he's reluctant to sell, his boat I liked, he has a trailer! Lets call that unavailable too.
4 is from 2015, that is 2 years old of a listing. It may not be for sale anymore, maybe it is? 50/50 then OK?
5 is a J80, lots of them to be found, but its a 26 foot racer, not the boat in question. I can find tons of these, and they are overpriced too.

J28s sell for higher than a typical 28 foot boat would sell its true, but I think the asking prices are not grounded in reality anymore. I do believe a reasonable price for them these days is under $20k. A competitive boat in that size/class is the Beneteau First 285. Its prices have also been reduced to the under 20k realm, and many owners there have ALSO not embraced their new reality.

The J28 does have a balsa deck, and hull, and I'd be very concerned about a compromise in the keel area for delamination and wet core in the hull because of it. NO question it'd be worth its weight to have a proper inspection done... if the boat really just has some fairing, sealing, painting needed done... great it may be a good buy. Otherwise, you lose $400-$600, not $11,000+

To me, sounds like a reasonable gamble.
 
#19 ·
Interesting.. Locally (PNW) I think a good J-28 would sell well above 30K, I suspect, perhaps due to their rarity here.
 
#21 ·
Some people are willing to do the work themselves... not sure I'd tackle a whole deck recore... But I'd bet money the buyer did NOTHING with it, and is sailing it soggy core and all. IN 5 years when the boat totally delaminates... they'll wonder what went wrong, and someone on here will tell them to drill holes in the deck, with a bent nail, and fill it with epoxy.
 
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