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Looking for suggestions for a swing keel daysailer
As I continue to work on my contest getting ready for a launch in a year or two once I have sufficient time to go cruising, I am considering buying a swing keel trailer sailor to get out on the water in the meantime. I haven't been able to go sailing for 2 or 3 years now and while working on my boat is rewarding I think id like to buy a small swing keel sailboat to use on the weekends. It would be sailed in the Muskoka lakes as my father has a property there that I go up to most weekends during the summer. I am looking for something that has good sailing performance, is very stable as I will be taking my wife and daughter in it, is low maintenance, relatively inexpensive and has a board up draft of less than 2.5 feet. Right now I am looking at the cs22 and the tanzer 22 swing keel version so I would find it helpful if anyone has any experience with these boats but I would also be open to suggestions. I am also interested in what specific things one should inspect with regard to the swing keel when inspecting a boat as I have never been on a swing keel boat before. The winds here are generally quite light so light air performance is an important characteristic. The boat will be daysailed and so I would prefer a spacious cockpit to a spacious cabin.
Shopping for a trailer sailer in Ontario has been one of my top hobbies for the last several months and I have learned a ton.
I'm thinking 22 feet might be the upper end of the size range I'd be interested in sailing in the Muskokas on.
I think CS 22's a very nice boats, there has been one for sale in Barrie for months, looks like it might be a good deal, and it's on your way up North.
I've looked at a bunch of Tanzer 22's. My wife loves them, the swing keel models seem rather rare and comparitevly expensive. They are heavy boats, up in the 3000 lb range.
I think the lighter weight of a Sirius 21 would work well for the Muskokas.
A bit smaller, but much lighter and more trailerable you have the Sandpiper 565 which is built by one of the very few Canadian sailboat manufacturers of the 70's still in business today. They do have smallish cockpits though.
Along with the Sandpiper, you've got the Edel 540, they have a fixed keel but should be pretty close on hitting your draft target.
Other possibilities might be an Oday 17 (no cuddie) or Oday Mariner.
All of the above boats can be had for well under $10k cdn.
I don't know if there are many Catalina 22s up your way but down here in SoCal they are all over the place . I used to race on my friends and my Ms.westi used to own one . Hers was the pop top swing keel , the pop top made it into a nice camper . They tow pretty easy with a 1/2 ton pick up . My friend towed his with a mini truck . Some of them had bad blisters , but generally they are a simple boat and easy to inspect things especially if you are refurbing a boat , you will know what to look for . Also I never heard of one having a problem with the swing keel . Down here you can pick up a good one with a trailer for less than 6K http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=200
I don't know if there are many Catalina 22s up your way but down here in SoCal they are all over the place .
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Also I never heard of one having a problem with the swing keel .
I think the Catalina 22 has one of the better swing keel mechanisms. It's completely sealed from the interior, so something would have to be seriously wrong before it would cause leaks.
Anyway.
I just looked at a map of the Muskoka Lakes area. Yikes, that looks like some challenging sailing!
I will look at the Sirius 21. They seem to pop up on kijiji quite often. How well do they perform in light air. I think there are a few sandpipers around here as well, they appear to have a flatter bottom compared to the tanzer or cs, how does that affect performance. I also agree the swing keel tanzers seem to be hard to find compared to the fin keel version in southern Ontario at least, and you might be right about them being too heavy for Muskoka. I like the cs because it is an attractive boat and the cs's I have been aboard have all been well built and they perform well in a range of conditions, however that was in the great lakes which have much stronger winds than Muskoka.
Of the above listed boats, I have been aboard all of them, but the only ones I have personally sailed are CS22 and Tanzer 22.
Looking at the numbers only, Tanzer 22 and CS22's are fairly good boats for higher winds (CS22 has a ballast displacement ratio of 50%!).
The Sirius 21 is a seriously different boat with positive bouyancy and a ballast displacement ratio of %25. I understand they are good quick light air boats.
Sandpiper 565's are essentially dinghys with weighted daggerboards (300 lbs). I don't think they are terribly fast, but my research indicates they are capable sailors that can move pretty quickly down wind (relatively speaking). You're right though, their bottom is flat with longitudinal runners for beaching. I have observed people tend to sail them very flat, like dinghys.
Another boat that makes a good daysailer and is unexpectedly quick is a Siren 17, decent sized cockpits too. I've sailed sirens (never owned one) they have a very loyal following.
I very nearly bought a Sandpiper on the week end, I like Sandpipers, neat boats, but for primarily day sailing, Sirens 17's have a lot going for them.
I was just doing some more research (these boats are of interest to me) and I saw accounts of Sandpipers participating in the Lake Ontario 300 (Scotch Bonnet Course).
So if folks are entering races like this with the intent of finishing the skippers must have some confidence in the boats sailing ability. Heres an article about a Sandpiper getting knocked down in the race.
Check this part of the ad: "drop keel is off to show great condition"
That's great, the only part of a Catalina 22 that's hard to inspect and a bit of a worry is the keel pin. If the keel is already dropped you can give it a look.
My boat is over 40 years old. When I finally (after two seasons) got around to dropping the keel to look at the pin it was in perfect shape. Perhaps a bit polished on the contact side, but no significant wear. I was prepared to replace it, but instead I put the original back and went sailing. I think being stored in freshwater makes a big difference there.
Odd add, think the boat is in Omemee, about 10 minutes from me but listed in the Muskokas.
Much closer to Toronto than Gravenhurst, bit over an hours drive. Easy to find/get to.
If the catalina 22 is in good condition it would certainly be a good option. I would assume parts are easy to find considering how many of these boats were made, and it fits the bill in terms of draft. I think I will go check it out when I have time to go to Omemee, which is about an hour away from my home. What is the performance of catalina 22's like in light airs. There are a few Sirius 21's on kijiji as well for not much more money, which would be a better boat for light air.
It's obviously going to be slower than a comparatively-sized lighter boat, but I sail mine in some pretty light air. I have a nylon 170 that can get me moving when you can't even feel the wind. Some of my nicest sails have been at about 0.5 knots right at sunset when the lake is smooth as a mirror. As long as I can control my direction, I call it sailing!
I'm happy with my boat.
Here's how it goes on my lake. I have a friend with a Rhodes 19 who can, and sometimes literally does, sail circles around me. Shorter waterline, but a thousand pounds lighter, fractional rig, and he's a better sailor. However when the wind pipes up he has to go in, whereas I can stay out. When the wind dies he has to go in, whereas I can throw up my nylon 170 and stay out. (Of course he could do the same if he bought some sort of oversized headsail.)
Everyone loves their own boat, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but a Catalina 22 is a fine all-around choice.
Too funny just google mapped it, I used to live within a Km or so of where that boat is.
Used to own a Sirius 21, fun boat. Never sailed the Catalina so really can't compare the two.
The pop top and tent on the Sirius makes it fairly "comfortable" at anchor as you have a covered top over your head in the cabin.
Chances are much better support for the Cat.
I did the North Channel in my Sirius, cramped but fun.
Going by the numbers the Sirius should have better light air perormance, Higher sail area/disp. ratio and lower disp./length ratio. Weighs about 500 lbs. less.
As I said though never sailed a Catalina 22.
Personally, I think the Sirius would be faster in light air. Its 500 lbs lighter with the same sail area. Its also positively buoyant (still floats when full of water, supposedly upright too) which I think would be a nice safety feature in a small boat. On the other hand, they still make new Catalina 22s which would make finding spare parts a lot easier.
That looks like a pretty big lake. C22 will do the job nicely. My '74 has needed nothing in 5 years of hard use. I did put a new keel cable in, and new trailer tires.
The C22 must be about the right weight because its too heavy in light air and too light in heavy wind. Seriously you can buy a big headsail and that will move you in light wind. Reef the main and go with a jib and you can sail in 20 mph wind. So there is some versatility, but in every condition one type of boat or another will out sail you. My boat does a steady 5 mph most days, but on light air days she starts to drop behind and then give up. 5 mph winds or below she comes to nearly a stop.
Siren 17 wins for big-cockpit daysailer. Quick and stable for what it is. Always felt comfortable on it with my three (then little) kids. So easy to launch, set up, button up, trailer up. Out and sailing faster.
(working on getting "button up" time on the big boat down from an hour!)
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