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  #11  
Old 01-27-2007
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a "foreigner" can get a vessel documented as a US flag vessel. You just have to establish a US corporation. Lots of Deleware lawyers getting paid to do this. Also a non US citizen can now skipper a recreational US flag vessel. Under the old law you had to be a US citizen to skipper a US flag vessel. I'm talking about documented vessels.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco
a "foreigner" can get a vessel documented as a US flag vessel. You just have to establish a US corporation. Lots of Deleware lawyers getting paid to do this. Also a non US citizen can now skipper a recreational US flag vessel. Under the old law you had to be a US citizen to skipper a US flag vessel. I'm talking about documented vessels.
Actually, this is really bad advice.... if you form a corporation to own a boat, the corporation has to have majority US citizen ownership, just as a boat would IIRC.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #13  
Old 01-27-2007
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otaga95,
Congratulations on the selection of an excellent vessel. I am confused by your comments about "title". Are you referring to a State of ME title, I didn't think documented vessels in ME required state registration, similar to MA, i.e. I do not have a MA title for MY CS 36...

I'd suggest that you talk with a documentation service about your circumstances and issues related to not maintaining the documentation, here's one http://www.coastaldocumentation.com/ .

The boat is just a microcosm of all your other joint possessions, I assume you/she have liability insurance which you will want to extend to the boat anyway. I don't think keeping the boat asset off your wife's liability would be something to worry about, but perhaps this is a subject for a good lawyer to advise you on, the boat is probably a bigger legal risk than all your other assets combined...
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Old 01-27-2007
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Hey SF...you are in violation of mass law...
"Just about any type of a boat with a motor―and there are an estimated 150,000 of them in Massachusetts―must be registered with the Massachusetts Environmental Police (DEP)Registration and Titling Bureau. Registration is mandatory for any boat with a motor that uses state waterways. Titling is mandatory for any boat that uses an engine and is 14 feet or longer.How to Register and Title a Boat in Massachusetts

To register and title a boat, you need to first pay your 5% sales tax to the Department of Revenue. Once you have proof of payment, you can complete a registration and title application from the DEP. The application is available online or from any of the regional DEP offices in Massachusetts. Once you've completed the application, take it to the nearest DEP regional office."
FROM: http://www.dmv.org/ma-massachusetts/...gistration.php
***********************



Interestingly Maine does not require registration if you are fed documented. Sales tax is NOT exempt....just registration.
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Old 01-28-2007
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I think you need to do a bit more research. SF is correct... I've quoted a relevant website here.


Quote:
Federally Documented Boats (issued by the US Coast Guard)

Larger recreational vessels, owned by U.S. citizens, may (at the option of the owner) be documented by the U.S. Coast Guard. Call the USCG at 1-800-799-8362 for more information. Documented vessels are exempt from state registration and titling requirements.
  • Official Documentation MUST be carried onboard a documented vessel at all times.
  • A Document serves as a certificate of nationality and an authorization for a trade.
  • Documented vessels must comply with all state and federal laws.
  • Registration fee and display of validation sticker is required in some states.
  • Official number must be permanently affixed to an integral structure of the boat. This number is referred to as the “main beam” number.
  • The main beam number must match the official number on the document.
  • Name and hailing port of the boat must be displayed at least once anywhere on the hull (most boater display this information on the transom) - at least 4” in height, contrasting in color to the hull.
  • Name and hailing port must match information on the official document.
Periodically check to see that the numbers and decals are in good condition. A missing number, or having them improperly displayed is a good reason for a law enforcement officer to stop you.

My boat is also USCG documented, and sails from Massachusetts waters... and I did the research last year, when I got the boat... so I know it is currently the law...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #16  
Old 01-28-2007
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Otaga
Why not just keep it simple, if you are just going to be sailing in US coastal waters get state title and registration, you probably don't really need USCG documentation.
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Old 01-28-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Actually, this is really bad advice.... if you form a corporation to own a boat, the corporation has to have majority US citizen ownership, just as a boat would IIRC.
sailingdog,

I was not giving advice, just stating a few facts.
please do a quick google search and you will find out how wrong you are. I personally have met two "foreigners" who own and operate US flag boats through Deleware corporations. To assist you here:

http://www.non-us.org/US_company_for...g_citizens.htm
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco
sailingdog,

I was not giving advice, just stating a few facts.
please do a quick google search and you will find out how wrong you are. I personally have met two "foreigners" who own and operate US flag boats through Deleware corporations. To assist you here:

http://www.non-us.org/US_company_for...g_citizens.htm
Vasco-

Might want to check with the USCG instead. While a non-citizen could technically own the corporation, it would probably be an expensive proposition, given the USCG requirements.

You would still need to have a CEO and chairman of the board, who were US Citizens and willing to do the paperwork and hassle of running a corporation, with all the liabilities and responsibilities that entails, just to own the boat... Sounds like a stupid and expensive proposition, especially when his wife is a citizen and capable of being a co-owner with him.

Quote:
HOW DO I ESTABLISH U.S. CITIZENSHIP?

Citizenship is established by completion of form CG-1258. In addition to individuals, corporations, partnerships, and other entities capable of holding legal title may be deemed citizens for documentation purposes. Corporations must be registered in a state or the U.S; the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of directors must be U.S. citizens, and no more than a minority of the number of directors necessary to constitute a quorum may be non-citizens. In addition, at least 75% of the stock must be vested in U.S. citizens for a coastwise or fisheries endorsement.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 01-28-2007 at 10:03 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2007
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sailingdog,

This has nothing to do with documenting a recreational vessel, this pertains to commercial and fishing vessels..... "coastwise or fisheries endorsement". You will note that I staed "recreational vessel" in my initial post on this.
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  #20  
Old 01-28-2007
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*******************************
Sorry Sailingdog I just dropped by and didn’t read everything.
*******************************

Instead of guessing go to www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm and get the real story.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

Last edited by Tartan34C; 01-28-2007 at 10:13 AM.
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