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  #1  
Old 12-20-2001
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rogerleslie is on a distinguished road
ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

My wife and I plan to semi-retire in about 30 months. We want to cruise about 6 months ea. year. Our experience is limited to lake sailing on our Hunter25.

We plan on getting our feet wet in the Pamlico Sound and progress to the ICW and beyond. We have been looking at the Allied 32 and the Westsail 32. Our "boat" budget is $50,000 including upfit.

We will appreciate any thoughts or comments.
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Old 12-20-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

There are a lot of good boats out there for $50,000 and neither of those two (I assume that the Allied 32 that you are refering to is an Allied Seawind II) are at the top of my list for the kind of coastal cruising that it appears that you will be doing. I would probably look for something that is a little bit handier. Both of these are old style offshore cruisers. They are fine in a windy venue and where manueverability and speed are not important. But in the tight quarters and high speed currents of the venues that you have identified I would personally lokk for something a bit lighter and faster than the two vessels in question.

Respectfully
Jeff
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Old 12-21-2001
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VIEXILE is on a distinguished road
ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

I kept my nasty old Bristol 35, full keel beast about 6 miles up the Piscataqua River in New Hampshire a few years ago. It has a 28 hp Volvo MD2B (1970)and a hull speed of 6.53kn. The Piscataqua, on an ebb or flood tide, has one of the heaviest tidal river currents in the Western Hemisphere, hitting 9 knots on the full moon. If the engine is reasonably matched to the boat, and the boat will turn well and do hull speed, you''ll be fine. You''ll also learn the nuances of the currents you run, where to stay out of (the drawbridges in the Piscataqua can be a sphincter-tightening bitch at full flow) and how to minimize current effect. I''ve spent many hours (total) "surfing" waiting for the drawbridges to open. Life doesn''t always run with the tide. Jeff continues, however well-intentioned, to search for the ideal and have everyone on Farr 38''s. I''ve even looked at them. If you''re not racing and understand that the Westsail 32 is going to be a slug in winds under 15 knots and are determined that you want a Westsnail, by all means. Same with the Allied, although that''ll maneuver better than the Westsail. I guess my point is that with a well-found hull and everything in manageable condition, the old Allieds (there''s a 35 yawl down here that I sail infrequently), BRISTOLS, Pearsons, etc., are fine boats, built for the barbarian masses. I''ve been in some deep **** with my B35 75 miles out in the Gulf of Maine and been completely comfortable (except for the cold rain) AND it handles fine in a short chop. It prefers 12'' seas and 25kn winds and points rather well for a relatively small mainsail. My boat cost me $29,000 and was seller financed 8 or 9 years ago. I wouldn''t have got it otherwise. Do what you got to do to be safely and confidently on the water. Educate thyself, take everything on this site with a grain of salt and buy what YOU want for a boat (which could be a Farr 38 or a Westsail). KW
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Old 12-21-2001
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rogerleslie is on a distinguished road
ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

Thanks for the input. The weight and lack of maneuvering with such heavy boats is a concern due to the light winds on the east coast. I don''t race and love the lines of the two I mentioned. We are not dead-set on either boat.

My main concerns are: comfort, safety and will the boat handle well in the areas we plan to sail in.
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Old 12-21-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

I never tried to steer the poster towards a Farr 38 (although there is a cold-molded Farr 38 down in Bufort, N.C. that needs sme work but falls well within their budget). My point was that they are sailing in an area where a little better windward performance a bit more speed and manueverablity is really helpful. I really do think that for the kind of thing the original poster is proposing, they would do better with a more moderate designed boat like a Bristol 35.5, C&C 35 mkIII or 36, Sabre, or perhaps a Tartan. I am glad that you liked your Bristol 35, but, like my Farr 38, these boats are not suited to everyone.

Regards
Jeff

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Old 12-21-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

The problem is, as I see it, many, many people like myself have to take what we can get and go from there. I looked at a lot of boats 10 years ago. From J-35''s to Pearson Ariels. A cash purchase meant about $10,000.00 - everything I could muster. I wanted a bigger boat than a Triton or Ariel. Bank financing was virtually impossible unless you had the full mortgage amount on deposit in the bank, particularly after the freewheeling banking of the late ''80s and the oft-late bank payments I made in recession-wracked Maine. Finding someone willing to seller finance put me in a boat large enough for my family of 5, stiff enough for the Gulf of Maine and simple enough so I can work out every system myself, including the engine (I hate car engines). Praise Don Casey''s first publishing. There''s many, many old Wanderers, Coasters, Pearson 35''s, Vanguards, Bristol 30''s, 32''s, 35''s, 40''s etc., etc., that most lenders will no longer touch as security for a loan. I''m finding seller financing works well as long as the buyer doesn''t have stars in his/her eyes and knows that a typical 35 footer of that genre is going to probably cost you $5K to bring it up to snuff and double that to perfect it. Over the next year I''ll probably totally refit my Bristol into "as new" condition, giving me something I can cruise back and forth to Trinidad, use as a support/camp boat at the Heineken Regattas in SXM, PR, etc. and enjoy the leisurely pace of weekend cruising. The same could be said for an old P-35 Alberg, etc. She ain''t quick, but she''s pretty, the deal with "your price, my terms" worked out well and I''ve only got a boat because it was the best one I could muster under "my terms." If I ever move to something else, knowing it''ll take a cash purchase for someone to buy the boat, or my seller financing, I''ll probably just let my kids cruise the Caribbean with it. It''s paid off free and clear. The key is saving, saving, saving and shaking $5K to $10K in cash money under someone''s nose who''s been trying to sell a boat for a year or more and convincing them of your creditworthiness with a fairly short term and solid monthly payment and naming them on the insurance policy as lienholder. Just do it. Do it now. Get out of Cleveland. Now. Right now. Happy holidays....
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Old 12-21-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

But have you bothered to read the original request for information? Whatever your finacial and credit limitations, the person who asked the question says that they have a budget $50,000 for the boat in fixed up condition. While he named two venerable long range cruisers, he described a sailing venue that favors faster boats with better light air performance boats.

If he had a smaller budget or sailed in an area with more consistent high winds, I would have thought that the two boats in question might have had more merit. Just because I choose to own high performance boats,does not mean that I only advocate the kind of very high performance boats that I enjoy. Most of the people that I encounter on these type of BB''s are doing primarily coastal cruising and are better served by moderate displacement, higher performance boats than the so-called ''blue water'' cruisers or first generation fiberglass boats. While those who choose to buy first generation fiberglass will often justify their purchase on cost, the reality is that one can often find more modern and better sailing designs at similar prices for similar condition boats to the first generation fiberglass boats. At that point it becomes a matter of subjective personnal preference. I have been sailing traditional sailing craft for 40 years now. To this day, I still sail and race gaff and lug riggers. I grew up sailing boats like the boat that you currently own. While I still enjoy looking at these boats and i am glad that someone loves them and takes care of them, I no longer prefer to own these anacronisms nor do I believe that they are the best choice for every coastal cruiser or for that matter, the average coastal cruiser.

Respectfully
Jeff

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Old 12-21-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

50,000 grand might be tight for a W32 if that includes your budget for fix up etc. I plan on buying one in the next year and have gotten familiar with the prices.(No I wont be sailing on the cheasepeak so dont talk me out of it jeff! )The nice thing about the W32s I have looked at is most of them are already equipped with wind vanes solar panels ,etc. You are not going to need a lot of money to make them cruise ready. I am not familiar with the Allied 32 except for the fact that I too have admired the lines. Btw I agree with the other poster about getting what ever you can get.I bought my first 30footer when I was 25 , I had to have it ! Of course
I had no money , but was able to owner finance it. 1965 chris craft capri 30 (sparkman and stevens)Bought it for way under 10,000 grand of course it needed some work to make her right. Im 31 now and this boat has introduced me to a whole new world. I live in Wilm, Nc so consider myself lucky everytime me and the boat head out of masonboro inlet . My point is 6 years ago reading this message board I would not have bought the boat thinking I needed 100,000 grand
and a light displacement hull. Get whatever will get you past the breakwater!
thomas
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Old 12-22-2001
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ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

I must confess, I am a little confused by some of the posts... at any rate...

I think one thing to consider is 1970''s era boats may require more $ to get to the condition you would like and then you are left with a boat that has less value than what you have put into it. Banks may require a greater % down in financing boats older than 20yrs. This is not to disuade you from a 70s boat, there were some good boats built then and you can get them cheaper.

I would suggest making a list of priorities. They might be:
1. 1980''s or newer (for systems and resale)
2. How livable do you want it to be (many cruisers spend 90% of their time at the dock)
3. Personal taste (you want to be on a boat you will be PROUD of, also what quality of joinery do you want in the cabin: formica (yuk), yatch like, nice or average), and do you want a classic such as the Allied or a more modern design.
4. Construction (my personal choice is a solid glass hull, not balsa cored... others go the other way)
5. Accomodations (I wanted an aft cabin, others need only a Vee berth, you may or may not need a qtr berth)
6. Draft - you will likely need 5ft or less.

Develop these as you look at boats, they will evolve... but you should have them set before making your final choice.

Assume you can get a boat for 10% less than asking. We are in a good market right now and that is a good average figure.

You can sit back and search on Yachtworld.com, using a variety of criteria. It is a huge database of most of the brokered boats out there. You can search it by many different criteria. Do searched such as "what boats are under 50k, local and built 1980 or after and are fiberglass". It will be instructive to make short lists of particular searches and compare.

But by all means have fun and enjoy going for your dream. Another piece of advice, take your time. You will find that your taste''s and needs are likely to increase as you get closer to the boat you really want.

All the best
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Old 12-24-2001
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VIEXILE is on a distinguished road
ADVICE ON ALLIED 32 AND WESTSAIL 32

One thing about the late ''70''s and early ''80''s boats that I recall hearing from the layup boys (admittedly breathing too much resin fumes) at Sabre, Hinckley, Duffy & Duffy, Paul Coble, etc., along the coast of Maine was to be vigilantly suspect of boats that were laid up when interest rates were 20% and gasoline lines were long. When petroleum costs were high and the layup technology had improved (hulls began to thin out from the 3/4"+ layup below the waterline) and interest rates were high (prime was what, 21.5%?) companies looked for every avenue to reduce production expense and stay in business. A large percentage didn''t make it. This is not to say that any of the above boats were problematic, but leaner resin applications (just enough) might have occurred in some cases. Ask a surveyor knowledgable about such things if you can figure out when that was 20+- years ago.....and just get a solid boat and go sailing....do what you have to do to safely and comfortably get on the water....
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