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  #1  
Old 01-31-2007
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J30( is it a good Cruiser)

Hi am thinking of geting a j30 for me and my wife. I am going to be crusing most of the time. I live in the caribean.Is J30 a good cruiser or some one have anothersugestion. I want a fast and performance cruiser so I can race her once in a while. Also does enyon Knows if ot is posible to instal a smal electric generator and a AC in ti. is ther roo n the boat for that. the caribbean is way hot and my wife wont put a foot on it unles she have ac and a tv for the nights
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Old 01-31-2007
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Rfagu,

I have raced a 30. Fun boats, a lot of fun to sail. I always enjoy crewing on one as I will never own one because I do not think it is worth a crap as a liveaboard cruiser... especially for the islands. If you think your wife does not like the AC piece, wait until she gets stuck in that stripped down Corvette.

Performance cruiser? What's your budget!!? Yes, there are performance cruisers but they ain't cheap. I think I would just get a Catalina so me and my wife were happy and comfortable 99.9% of the time and only race in races where they allow handicaps. Once you get all your crap on any boat you will never win any races anyways as the wateline will be just below the gunnels!! There are performance cruisers... but I will not go there. I do not believe in them as I think the two are mutually exclusive (OH LORD ISN"T THAT GOING TO GET ME SOME NASTY REPLIES). Just because it is a cruiser does not mean it has to be a slug... but many are. But a race boat as a cruiser... well, not me. I have been there. Nope, not me.

I think you need to ask yourself which one is more important to you: racing in a race with no handicaps where you have a chance to win, or living aboard and cruising comfortably on a boat where you and your wife will be comfortable and you will not be thrown overboard while facing a mutiny. Peronally, I chose the later as I can only tread water for just so long.

- CD
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Old 01-31-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad
Rfagu,

I have raced a 30. Fun boats, a lot of fun to sail. I always enjoy crewing on one as I will never own one because I do not think it is worth a crap as a liveaboard cruiser... especially for the islands. If you think your wife does not like the AC piece, wait until she gets stuck in that stripped down Corvette.

I agree 100%....Rfagu, for what you want its bad...get a First or a Jeanneau Sun Fast...good rating and some cruiser/race qualities...

Performance cruiser? What's your budget!!? Yes, there are performance cruisers but they ain't cheap. I think I would just get a Catalina so me and my wife were happy and comfortable 99.9% of the time and only race in races where they allow handicaps.

YES..the wisest thing you ever said....

Once you get all your crap on any boat you will never win any races anyways as the wateline will be just below the gunnels!!

Yes and no...depends on how carefull you are with wieght....


There are performance cruisers... but I will not go there. I do not believe in them as I think the two are mutually exclusive (OH LORD ISN"T THAT GOING TO GET ME SOME NASTY REPLIES). Depends, doesn't it CD???
Now....you just went crazy....and I was having good hopes about you.....what do you mean????
Of course you can have both...FIrst, Sun Odissey, Dufour new models but mostly he is right a Catalina will do perfect. Saw them finnaly CD...we'll talk later!!!


Just because it is a cruiser does not mean it has to be a slug... but many are. But a race boat as a cruiser... well, not me. I have been there. Nope, not me.

I'm happy....

I think you need to ask yourself which one is more important to you: racing in a race with no handicaps where you have a chance to win, or living aboard and cruising comfortably on a boat where you and your wife will be comfortable and you will not be thrown overboard while facing a mutiny. Peronally, I chose the later as I can only tread water for just so long.

- CD

Rfagu, he's right, but look at the ones I mentioned.....
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Old 01-31-2007
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"There are performance cruisers... but I will not go there. I do not believe in them as I think the two are mutually exclusive "

CD, sorry to disappoint but, I haven't had my nasty pills yet.

If you build a 40' boat with berths for eight and tankage and all and two heads....I'd argue that's a cruiser. Make a few different design choices in the same hull, like four berths and one head and half the tankage, and it might be a performance cruiser. You just need to make the compromises toward speed rather than payload or stowage. Take out the "Moorings" granite countertops and deluxe oven, use honeycomb instead of solids...I could see ways to emphasize performance without making a boat unsuitable for cruising.

You, you've chosen to carry your wife on board. That kind puts you out of "performance" mode and solidly into "cruising" right there, doesn't it?
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Old 01-31-2007
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I am not saying you cannot get a performance cruiser. How about an X? THere are others. I don't want a slug in the water, but the mindset of a cruiser has to be:

1) Safety, 2) Liveability, 3) Access to equipment, 4) Ability to put on equipment/gear, 5) Performance.

In that order, in my book.

Now, for a racer:

1) Safety (first or second, depending on whether we are talking offshore or beer cans), 2) Performance, 3) Ability to put on equipment/gear, 4) Access to equipment/gear, 5) Liveability.

How do you rank the performance cruiser? Where is the compromise? There are compromises, in every boat.

Unless you have a lot of money and want to design your own boat (Giu's, for example), go get a fat, comfortable, kick your feet out in the cockpit and grill hanging over the side cruiser. Pull a bloody racing dink behind you to get your speed fix. Keep the wife happy and you will be happier too. The whole racing boat for a cruiser thing sounds great at the docks and weekend cruising... but long term liveaboard (especially in the islands)... NO THANK YOU. I give you a month before you are shopping for a new boat or giving up cruising as too uncomfortable, or no fun, or too cramped, or blah, blah, blah...

- CD

PS Giu, I raced against a first 32 on my catalina 320 and beat him. Now you are going to say the bene did not know how to race!? (probably too because I don't either!!) Spilt my beer, busted a crystal glass going over, gave up racing on my own boat. Nah. When I get that very rare bug up my butt to race, I go crew on a buddy's J92. After the race is over, they all come over to my boat to drink as he even pulled out his bloody cushions as too much weight?*%!#! Whatever. Not my boat.
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Old 01-31-2007
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CD-
I'd argue that your fifth criteria, Performance, is a misnomer. Actually, "performance" can be defined as all of the other four criteria, so it is the first thing, not the last thing, on your list!

I never had any interest in racing until someone said "There's a great steakhouse but we don't have charts, if we can get in there while there's still daylight..." and I began to look at how to make boats go faster.

"Keep the wife happy and you will be happier too." Ah, well, how many wives really want their men to be messing around with boats at all?

So, in my cruiser's mindset (I'm built for comfort not for speed, as they say), I'd read your cruising criteria this way:

1) Safety.
In the outright cruiser? Maybe dual or triple redundancy and huge capacity for everything. In the "performance cruiser" ? All the same safety gear, just scaled down from Nuclear War to what I'm more likely to experience, and curtailed according to what I can avoid. Skip the forward battery and power windlass, take two anchors instead of three, now the bow is lighter and the boat will be faster and more comfortable in seas. Is it any less safe? Well, that's a subjective choice.

2) Liveability,
One head instead of two? One Korean butane burner and meals-in-one can probably keep me happy for a long time and knock another 100# of metal out of the galley. And, I don't need a blender, I'll buy "blender drinks" at a bar if I need them. A good peanutbutter jar makes a great cocktail shaker. Does that mean I'm slumming it? Probably.

3) Access to equipment,
Who cares about access, that's what the servants have to deal with. No, really. If you want access, I suppose that means buy the bigger longer boat, which will be faster (performance) and load it lightly for good access.

4) Ability to put on equipment/gear,
Are we talking about a Targa bar here? Then again, I also love being dry under a bimini in the rain, but in these northern waters, running "furniture" all over the cockpit just seems like a blasted impediment to me. I've got a hat and hood if it rains or shines.

5) Performance.
See? That's a part of everything you thought wasn't about performance! Now, did you want these JATO bottles installed on the pushpit, or the targa bar?
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Old 01-31-2007
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Dear Hello,

I have to admit. You are right. I succumb to your wit and wisdom. After reading such, I am now ready to recceomend he immediately put in his bid on the following boat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/custo...QQcmdZViewItem

Of course, he will have to fight off Labatt... but hey, I love a good fight, and with that extra-long mast sticking off the front, he can finish the race before he starts... not to mention have an escape when his wife kicks his butt off the boat and begins shooting flares at him. Hell, this might be a lot of fun. Me and the kids will sit back on our un-performance Catalina and mixed drinks and watch the action unfold like the old outdoor movie theaters.

You can come along if you want...

(SMILE HELLO, TRYING TO MAKE YOU LAUGH)
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Old 01-31-2007
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There's one thing missing from this equation though. No boat is going to be faster than the skipper can sail it. So, basically, unless you're doing one design, it's the skipper that sails his boat to it's maximum potential that will win (in handicap racing at least).

For me, living on my boat, if I just gotta race, I'd rather race a cruiser than live on a racer. That concept isn't too simple is it?
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Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
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Old 01-31-2007
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That's no mast, that's a bow sprit. Sheessshhhhh.
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Ontario 32 - Aria

Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


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I'm EPA-licensed to metabolize mixed drinks. Easy to make me smile.
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