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  #11  
Old 05-03-2007
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I have crawled through the Bavarias on several occasions. My impression a few years ago was that they were a step down from the other high production builders (Hunter, Beneteau and Catalina) in terms of the quality of the glasswork and structural detailing. The more recent Bavarias seem to be slightly improved but so have the boats by the big three.

Jeff
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2007
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Like Jeff I have crawled through them at boat shows with flash light in hand examining the bowels of them. I was was significantly UNIMPRESSED. Lots of unfinished areas, poor storage for the size of the vessel, poorly set up for sailing and the sides of the hulls when sighting down them looked like the Mississippi River on a windy day, very wavy. The worst feature, the faux wood cabin sole, gives new meaning to cheesy!
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Only the Match series had keel problems.

They are only as good as what you pay for them...good boats for day sails near the coast, and cheap..not very fast and easy to sail.

Agree on lower quality interior and fake wood, but they're OK for local sail.

By the way...a few Bavarias crossed the Atlantic this year from Canary Islands to the US in a large crossing gathering that was made. They all but a 50 foot made it ok....
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2007
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Given that they produce the boat in Germany, and given the price-point, there have to be some serious compromises in the build/rigging quality.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2007
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Looking at Bavarias at the Sydney Boat Show last year was a big disappointment. They just shrieked "cheep cheep". No way they compared in build quality to Elan, Hanse or even the dreaded Beneteau but they are also cheaper to buy than any of those I think. (maybe wrong there, didn't go into the price thing all that carefully.)

On the other hand there was a ten year old Bavaria 35 that was moored next to us and that was a lovely boat. Looked and felt nice and solid, had cruised extensively and with no major problems. Still wish it had a skeg.
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Old 05-03-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denr
Like Jeff I have crawled through them at boat shows with flash light in hand examining the bowels of them. I was was significantly UNIMPRESSED. Lots of unfinished areas, poor storage for the size of the vessel, poorly set up for sailing and the sides of the hulls when sighting down them looked like the Mississippi River on a windy day, very wavy. The worst feature, the faux wood cabin sole, gives new meaning to cheesy!
To be fair, you can find this on Dufours, Hanses and a number of other popular production boats (I won't bother naming the usual suspects). I have found far less to bitch about on Tartans and J-Boats, both of which I thought were capable of sailing as advertised.

I look forward to crawling around in a better class of boat than you find at Toronto boat shows one day. I have some fairly set ideas of what constitutes "seaworthy" and some salesman barking "certified Lloyd Ocean A!" or something doesn't excuse 24 inch lifelines. Unless you are a wealthy, seagoing Munchkin, I suppose.
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Old 05-03-2007
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People seem to equate crossing the Atlantic with boat quality. However, no matter how many barrels go over niagara, no one ever comments on the quality of the barrels involved. Quality should be judged not by what something can achieve when pushed, but by how it handles day to day in the environment in which it was designed to exist. The quality of the Bavaria product raises too many questions to whole heartedly say that it is a quality product. I strongly believe that you should not be lured by marketing tactics.
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Old 05-04-2007
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I don't hold coastal cruisers (or at least boats sold to the coastal cruiser/fair weather crowd) to the same standard. But when part of the sail patter explicitly speaks to "bluewater/oceanic" capabilities and certifications, and when you can see the absence of padeyes, low-rider lifelines, inadequate handholds, no provision for storm shutters, huge companionways with missing bridgedecks and 1/4" plastic dropboards, 200 gallon cockpits, tiny bilge pumps, vast saloons, etc.... well, I have to wonder what's happened to the tried and tested concept of "oceanic".

I don't care if these things are absent on a coastal cruiser, because they are geared for entertainment, comfort and ease of operation on light-air days. But you can have a fast, sleek and comfortable offshore cruiser that DOES have these attributes...it just costs more.
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Old 05-04-2007
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We talk a lot around these threads about "Blue Water" and crossing the Oceans, my question is and I often wonder, what percentage of the overall sailing population is considered to be true "Blue Water Sailors/Long Range Cruisers"?
I would be willing to bet that the number is very, very low; maybe around 5% or so of the overall sailing population, maybe its even less than that.
What is the percentage of this, the active members here on sailnet, that consider themselves to be "Blue Water" sailors?
Can we take a poll?
It seems to me that all we discuss are wether this or that is "Blue Water" capable, when in reality, most of us don't intend to do any "Blue Water" sailing.
Some do, but many don't.
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Old 05-04-2007
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Quote:
What is the percentage of this, the active members here on sailnet, that consider themselves to be "Blue Water" sailors?
Can we take a poll?
I have never crossed an ocean in my boat or gone beyond the continental shelf in one owned by me, but I've sailed in the Atlantic Ocean hundreds of times. Although my boat may be capable of this and I have dreamed of making an ocean crossing, my wife could never be convinced to do so - for as long as we are married.

Therefore, FWIW, I suppose I would technically be considered as a green water sailor.
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