Buying First Yacht - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 37 Old 02-23-2007
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Glue had better hold up over time. After all, an FRP hull is just a mess of glass fibers that have been GLUED TOGETHER with polyester or epoxy "glue".

I've got a bakelite tool that was epoxied together around 1967 with "PC-7" brand epoxy, and that's still as solid as it was back then. The same epoxy is still on the market.

SF-
I know this isn't a C&C, I just mention them to point out that a commonly respected builder has a common problem which doesn't bother owners. As to why the filler falls out...let's just say fillers don't fall out unless something works them out. Common rumour is that the C&C keels flex and that is why the filler works out. After all, airplane wings also are designed to flex, and that doesn't mean they are going to fall off. Willows flex, oaks break, right?
Compared to some other boats, the keel/hull attachments on a lot of C&Cs look outright flimsy. Still, no one worries about them, they don't fall off. They just, apparently, flex a bit more. Wouldn't stop me from sailing on one.

Last edited by hellosailor; 02-23-2007 at 05:37 PM.
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post #22 of 37 Old 02-23-2007
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I like the Mas epoxy, it doesn't have the "blush" that so many do. I find it to be better then West.
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post #23 of 37 Old 02-23-2007
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old boat, new owner

Ever heard of a Norwegian brand, Fingal?
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post #24 of 37 Old 02-23-2007
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Well I found out something today. We have an offer in on a CS 30 which looked to be in pretty good shape. Put the lowball figure in with all kinds of conditions. Got the previous survey from the owner today when he signed back (this was the survey that he had done when he bought the boat) Turns out that there is an issue with the aftermost stringers on this one as well. Didn't open up the floorboards to look at it ourselves, made the (erroneous) assumption that it looked so good everywherre it had to be in great shape. Anyway, the surveyor who looked at it previously (and who by coincidence is the same one that we are using) had written "Cracks noted at the rib/stringer junctions to port and starboard of the aft most keel bolt indicate structural (grounding) damage." I guess this might be an area of concern on CS boats... Not enough to scare us off the boat, but something to watch out for. We thought we had covered pretty well everything, but we were remiss in not obtaining the previous survey before offering...need to negotiate a bit more before signing back...
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post #25 of 37 Old 02-24-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
..... Common rumour is that the C&C keels flex and that is why the filler works out. After all, airplane wings also are designed to flex, and that doesn't mean they are going to fall off. Willows flex, oaks break, right?
Compared to some other boats, the keel/hull attachments on a lot of C&Cs look outright flimsy. Still, no one worries about them, they don't fall off. They just, apparently, flex a bit more. Wouldn't stop me from sailing on one.
Hellosailor,

I gotta say I think your "common rumor" fits into the urban myth category - as someone who has known C&Cs going back thirty years, both one I owned and those of numerous other owners, I have to say this is the first I've ever heard of such a comment. C&Cs hulls were generally better built than comparable boats of a period, the solid glass models were close to indestructable - I won't repeat prior posts regarding the abuse I delivered to mine....I suspect if you run a query of the thousands of threads in the C&C owners discussion group accumulated over the past ten years, you wont get a hit on "keel flex" - I didn't. Other C&C owners or former owners can chip in if I've missed something and am speaking out of school.

As to "looks flimsy", C&C designed a lot of different models involving different construction techniques over 20 plus years. I know a good number of them personally and know you can't be referring to any of those - what model or models did you have in mind with that comment?

Last edited by sailingfool; 02-24-2007 at 12:27 AM.
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post #26 of 37 Old 03-07-2007
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We just completed the process of buying a boat. A few items not yet mentioned:

Be a direct part of the survey. Do not get in the way, but watch and ask if needed. Take notes and pictures.

On any older motor, an engine survey is a good idea and can be done prior to closing. Same for the rig.

Be sure to give yopurself enough time for the survey and any need further reseaerch into issues. If you have 15 days to accept/reject after the offer is signed, get the survey done ASAP.

One can also do pre-offer surveys where a surveyor takes an overview look to see if the boat is worthy of your offer. This is especially helpful if you are far away from the boat.

You can always back-out based on survey, sea trial, etc. It is better to have lost a few thousand and walk than to inherit many more thousands in issues.

Good luck and have fun!
Gil
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post #27 of 37 Old 03-07-2007
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you won't get one on keel flex, but....
its known as a "smile"

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityou...mile/index.htm
http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums...07003073348.50
(plus some threads here)

don't get all wadded up over it, many boats "smile"

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
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post #28 of 37 Old 03-07-2007
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Like CardiacPaul says, you'll find plenty of references to the "C&C smile" online. It ain't my phrase, it ain't new, and it ain't uncommon.

C&C built racing boats and if you ask anyone who designs winning racing boats--they are always built light. The saying among racers (cars, boats, planes, doesn't matter which) is that if you haven't broken anything, it wasn't built light enough.
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post #29 of 37 Old 03-07-2007
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Race boats tend to have a bit less durabilty than "cruising" boats, as they tend to have lighter scantlings and weight is truly the enemy in any racing. The C&C Smile is a term I've seen very often, when discussing the more race-oriented C&C boats.... not all of their boats were as "race" oriented as others though.

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post #30 of 37 Old 03-07-2007
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true...very true....
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