Hinckley 35 or 38 -- any thoughts?

[Sailormann]

From Halifax - left 25 years ago and have been stuck here in Uppity Canada ever since...pacycheque and all that. Somedays I think I'll sell everything and go retire in Chester, but ... who knows ... pretty comfortable here now. Where are you from ?

[cardiacpaul]

"I'm a broken man on a Halifax pierrrrrrrrrr..."

I'm a Stan Rogers fan, dating back to a "pre-cuban" spouse from NB.

[petmac]

I did sell everything and settled in Kingston N.B. Been retired (for now) for 18 months. Mess around with boats in the winter,sail all summer.

[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

I guess I need to ask are you buying a boat to sail or to look at. Boats like the Hinckley Pilot and Bermuda 40 are beautiful boats to look at but miserable boats to sail in any kind of objective way.

I appreciate the passion Re your evaluation. I wish more people were willing to lay it all on the line as you have in this post.

However, I disagree with the overall thrust of your assessment of these boats.

I've always enjoyed sailing such vessels, and have little problem trading off space, "dry", and [relatively]
maintenance free ownership for the dynamic experience they offer.

As for these being "miserable boats to sail in any kind of objective way", allow me to suggest that you're misusing the term "objective."

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

Assuming that you are not looking at an restored and updated version, even the build and hardware quality, while very good for that era, was not all that great on any objective basis.

I would want to buy a boat that needs to be updated, but how many Hinckleys are allowed to deteriorate drastically? So many of them sail from Memorial Day to Labor Day, then head inside where Hinckley crews keep them better than new.

Also, if the build and hardware quality were "very good for that era," they were, and remain, great in an objective context.

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

By the Hinchley 38 I assume that you are refering to the late 1960's early 1970's Hinckley Competition 38, which was an S&S designed 38 footer. The hulls and decks were actually built by Hughes Boatworks in Canada and the boats finished at Hinckley. (Hughes also built a version of the boat marketed under thier name as well) I am really surprised that the Hinckley version has a cored hull. That would have been very early for a cored hull and I don't think that the Hughes version was cored. Hughes was using some foam coring in the decks around that time (I had a Hughes Northstar quarter tonner from that period which if I remember correctly had foam cored decks.)

According to a Hinckley Brokerage rep, a man with almost 30 years with the company, these boats were coared. (Any mistake here is likely to be mine -- not the reps')

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

With all due respect, I would suggest that you actually get out and sail on these boats yourself so that you get a sense of how they sail.

I've never sailed on either the 35 or the 38, but have done some time on similar vessels and a B40 yawl. I'd be surprised if the smaller boats let me down. As I've said, I really enjoy sailing such vessels. (I'm fairly certain that I'd go for the 35, but I'm not the sole decision maker on this purchase. It's the other person's willingness to cover the substantial cost of moving up to a B40 that has brought the B into the discussion.)

I do agree with you that prices for these boats are very high when compared to some of the great models you listed as noteworthy alternatives (I'd add the C&C 38 Landfall to that list.) Further, Hinckleys are certainly high/constant-maintenance ladies.

However, as I said above, I've always loved sailing such designs, with looks and space always taking a distant second and third in my book.

No doubt the alternatives you sight offer incredible advancements on several fronts. But the relative detachment from the water I feel when sailing them, as well as how hard the life of a rated vessel is likely to be, have me thinking Hinckley. (If the Contessa32 were built more robustly, and a given example was less likely to have criss-crossed the world's oceans...)

Appreciative of your efforts, passion, and upfrontness,

RAGNAR

[petmac]

From Practical Sailor re the Hinckley Bermuda 40 :
"Critics are quick to complain that other builders produce boats that are just as good for less money.More often than not,these sentiments are just sour grapes from people who can't afford a Hinckley or even a different brand of comparable quality.While we acknowledge that there are a few builders around the world which build boats to the same exacting level,Hinckley is nonetheless unique in North American boatbuilding."
Practical Sailor concluded:
"Obviously,Hinckleys aren't for everyone.They are expensive and only you can decide whether the many little quality details are worth the cost. As one owner said,"The B40 is to be bought on the day that the full significance of 'you only have one life to live' becomes clear."

Jack Horner wrote in his boat review:
"The Bermuda 40 is a quintessential example of Tripp's art and masterful eye for near-perfect balance.I think it can be said safely that this boat has stood the test of time,and,although the design is now 40 years old,many people,myself among them,still consider the Bermuda 40 one of the most beautiful yachts afloat."
In conclusion Hornor writes:
"The bottom line is these are very expensive boats,but they do retain their value exceptionally well and under some market conditions may even appreciate in value.They're out of my range of affordability but I can still dream of someday being able to own one or,better yet,design a boat of such lasting beauty."

Ferenc Mate' wrote of the B40 :
"without question the greatest fiberglass boat of all time"

John Kretschmer wrote in his Used Boat Notebook:
If you have $150,000 to spend,would you rather have a beautifully reconditioned 1975 B40 or a new 32 foot ABC production boat ? Which boat will be worth more in five years ? Which boat would you rather sail ?
He also writes "From the recessed,frameless portlights to the custom-made stainless steel deck fittings,to the lovely toerail,the boat drips with quality."

I could go on.I don't think that I have ever read a bad review on a B40.

[sahara]

Just came across this thread after some time away.
With all respect to Jeff H., there are a couple of things to remember here

1. Life is too short to own an ugly boat.

2. Repeat #1.

I would be quite surprised if the hulls of the Comp 38 were molded elsewhere. I've been on a Hughes, and the detailing of the deck tooling was not comparable to that of some of the Hinckley's I've seen.

These older boats were meant to be sailed, not parked at a marina as a stationary weekend home. That means they have sea berths, usually with lee cloths already installed.

Arguing about the relative speed of sailboats reminds me of the snail riding a tortoise shouting "Wheeeee! Wheeeee!". They're sailboats, if we were in a hurry, we'd be driving a car.

Ok, let's grant that a Pilot 35 may have the interior volume of a more modern 30'. You know that going in.

The Pilot and the B-40 are timeless classics. They sail well and have very few bad habits. People love them for a reason. I say go with your heart. You have to have "row away" factor with a boat - does she just look beautiful when you row away? If she does, you will always take care of her.

Think of it as your own, personal harbor beautification project. Buy one, and anchor next to any Herreshoff (or other classic) with pride.

[saladpe]

I own a 1967 Pilot 35 in the NY Metro area; there are 3 Pilots in the area that I'm aware of. I haven't been on a B40 but I do think they are beautiful, beautiful boats. There are far more B40s on the sound than Pilots...that's representative of the fact that there were appx 3x more B40s made to begin with. Though they look fairly similar, the designers are different...the Pilot is an S&S design while the B40 is a Tripp design. The S&S Pilot 35 was known at the time for being a great upwind boat while the Tripp B40 has been written up as being less effective to weather.

Of the other important differences, the Pilot has a deck stepped mast so be sure to check around the mast step for any fiberglass cracks in the cored deck. The deck stepped mast makes buying a water logged deck more of a problem than on a keel stepped mast boat as any flexing under load can cause big issues.

Also, an important difference is the size. Those extra 5 feet add up to an awful lot more boat when discussing the Pilot 35 and the B40. I think you should therefore consider your likely sailing companions and skill level. Double handing to Block Island would probably be a bit easier to handle on the Pilot and there's not much added swell to regret missing the extra waterline.

I think the Hinckley 38 and the Pilot 35 are much more similar than the Pilot 35 and the B40. The H38 has a higher freeboard and is supposed to be a better ride in a seaway. Its also supposed to be a more modern feel than the Pilot. The 38 doesn't have the drawn out stern and is therefore a bit less sexy, but in big breeze or swell I think it is supposed to be a better ride.

Of course, I'm partial to the Pilot as she's a beauty and much easier to sail with a limited crew as the loads are less and therefore a bit easier to control. One of these tricked out carbon rig Pilots won the Marion-Bermuda in 2004 and sailed back double handed in the Newport 1-2....so it appears it can handle what you throw at it.

[RAGNAR]

Thank you Saladpe and Sahara.

Ragnar

[RAGNAR]

As I mentioned above, I recently spoke with a Hinckley Brokerage rep that had almost 30 years with the company.

During that call, he mentioned that the best 35 he had ever seen was about to be listed.

I assume he was referring to this boat:

http://tinyurl.com/2peyom

I knew I should've bought a Quick Pick or two for that $370M jackpot.

[petmac]

I like this one better.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=16344&url=