The Search for the First Boat - long learning curves - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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One thing to always remember, different ways work for different folks. What makes this a good post is that the people that would ask, are not usually the type to just dive in, or, they just want confirmation of a choice they've already made.

My first boat, a Mirage 5.5, I bought because it was the only thing available at a price I was willing to pay. But, the reason for buying was to see if after 30+ years, I still enjoyed sailing as much. When I found I did, then I started looking for something bigger that would fullfill certain requirements. From that boat, it was 3 years until I found and bought Aria. 3 Years of looking, reading, researching, and living on yachtworld every winter.

John
Ontario 32 - Aria

Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


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post #12 of 46 Old 02-26-2007 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Rule 3: Don't worry about the money.
Here I disagree...if the goal is long distance cruising/living aboard. In my experience, most people have to worry about the money and cannot afford the loss that comes with a two or more boat approach to finally getting the "right boat". I agree with the need to really research the right type of boat for the planned cruising agenda and then find a suitable one that is affordable. But if a Tayana37 is the right boat...there is no need to get a Hunter 28 to learn on first in the "Bay" Not doing so will save a LOT of money and buy a lot of rum drinks somewhere nice!!
You had excellent points (most of which I looked at and said, "hum, yeah, that's a good point.")

I was unclear about the "don't worry about the money" part, and I apologize. There's a great deal to be said for buying the boat you need first, rather than "moving up." Unfortunately, my choices seem to be a) buy something small that "will do" for learning and having fun on the bay until my girls go off to college, b) wait until the girls are in college to get any kind of boat at all, or c) borrow a bunch of money to buy a boat now to get experience.

See, I've sailed (baby boats - Lightnings, little O'Days, Lasers, E-scows, Tornados, J/24s, etc), but my wife has not. Ever. I bought her a course with Womanship for Christmas to see how she likes it. If she absolutely detests sailing, and never wants to go on a boat again, I'll never need to go past the 30' (or so) Bay cruiser - the one that "will do."

If we wait until the girls are off to college (3 years from now), she won't have much experience, since all our money will go into the boat fund and kitty.

As for option c, well, I don't want to borrow money to buy a boat. I'm not very good with personal finances, and that's just a disaster waiting to happen (for me - YMMV).

So what I was trying to say was, don't worry about the money when you're trying to find out what *kind* of boat you need. Money is not a good measure of suitability. I just ran over to YW, while writing this, and did a search for used fiberglass sailboats between 28 and 32 feet, for less than 10K, and available on the east coast. Of 57 hits, there are widely different boats, like the Pearson Triton, the 29' Bristol, and the 28' Newport. I imagine the Newport's handling and seakeeping are pretty different than the Triton or Bristol.

(I'm sorry, I cannot seem to write concisely today.)

So I'm on a strict budget, and need to get out on the Bay to have fun with the family and get them sailing experience. I feel like I'm better off saying I'd prefer the Triton to the Newport, based on sea motion, rather than just looking at price and not really understanding the differences between the boats.

What works for me certainly isn't what's best for everybody.

Of course, if I hit Wednesday's Powerball, it's a different game entirely (I think there was a thread a while back about "what would you buy for a million dollars?").
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post #13 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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My father bought a Cal 25 II back in '78.

We simply went sailing, learned as we went.

Good post by Pmoyer, we are on a serch for a new boat now. I say its about a two year plan.

I was thinking to move up 6 feet and move up again in a few years. My wife disagrees and says if we are going to move up than we should just make the 10 foot jump. I kinda like her thinking.
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post #14 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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And a word of the obvious, but I've never seen posted.

A blue water boat WILL daysail/go coastal, BUT a daysailer/coastal cruiser would be advised not to go offshore. And nothing much is as bad as going for a casual coastal sail and getting hammered onto a lee shore. A good stout bluewater boat will claw off that shore. A better bluewater sailboat can be hove to on the OFFSHORE tack and proceed to slowly and with a relative amount of comfort gain searoom. A daysailer/coastal cruiser will be over powered and forced down wind onto the lee shore. I lean toward heavy, full keel, narrow vessels for any kind of ocean work. If it won't heave to stay close to shelter. BUT, be sure you can get in BEFORE the blow. The absolute worse case you can find yourself in is approaching land in worsening weather. Much safer to turn around and head to sea to gain searoom. And that's where you'll appreciate having a blue water vessel.
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post #15 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
2kt wind=trolling speed
 
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Thanks guys.
Cam,, I won't need the GPS just yet, I know this lake like the back of my hand. I built it. Well, OK, I helped build it, I was a Materials Tech for the Corps on the New Melones Project. I worked on a couple other projects here in Ca. too, and I know a couple of you guys sail on them.
Sorry to go O/T.

BTW, please don't think I was in any way trying to lessen this lesson, I'm a wise cracker by nature. I do appritiate all te tips I see on here.

Last edited by goose327; 02-26-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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post #16 of 46 Old 02-26-2007 Thread Starter
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Off the subject - Claw rigs

Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Goose...yer right man! Getting out on a boat in safe waters is the best way to learn and have fun!! (Keep a GPS in yer pocket though with your home waypoint...If we find ya out there, we'll point you in the right direction!! )
Ummmmm, yeah. I was looking at the claw rig in "Sailmaker's Apprentice," then looking at the 20' 2-man kayak in the corner, then at the claw rig....

I think I really must add a mast step to the kayak (fiberglass experience!), a few blocks and cleats, and play with this claw rig thing (sewing experience!). The wind always dies to a bare sniffle on summer evenings in the North Bay anyhow.....
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post #17 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmoyer
If we wait until the girls are off to college (3 years from now), she won't have much experience, since all our money will go into the boat fund and kitty.
I have two little girls, and I make them watch a couple hours of Beavis and Butthead every day so that they'll never have the inclination to go to college. They think it's all about them, but it's really all about me.
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post #18 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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Great thread, i went through the same process over and over in my head. The Southern Cross is a GREAT boat. You don't need 200k though. I paid 10k for mine last fall and have been working on it ever since...so far i have spent about 600$ for parts. They are very solid boats. Re-coring the deck is way easier than everyone says (i think its a way to scare people into spending $), so even one that needs work will still be way cheaper if you do it yourself. For my first "big" boat I settled on a Pearson 26 because i had been sailing hobiecats until then and i was afraid I wouldn't be able to solo a bigger boat...within 1 month i was wishing i had a bigger boat! A boat like the Southern Cross track's better and has a much better motion at sea than a lighter fin keeled boat. This makes foredeck work easier when alone. I can also reef later and be out in much worse conditions with more confidence. The sailplan is also a big consideration. My Pearson has a 150 rf genoa with a tiny main. It barley moves under the main alone, thus is hard to steer in harbor w/o the auxillary. When the wind kicks up i have to reef the 150 so much it has very poor shape so i slow down. The boom on my SC is 2x the legnth of the Pearson's and the main is huge. It easily powers the boat alone. The Yankee cut headsail (allows geat visibility when soloing) and staysail on a rf allow a much better sail combination than one large geny and when the weather fouls I have way more options. Because of the full keel and sailplan the boat easily heaves-to as well. The Pearson handles great but any time spent away from the tiller means your changing course! I also have a wife and 2 kids, and the extra room makes a HUGE difference. Pearson=5'8" (can't stand up inside) Southern Cross 31= 6'3" plenty of headroom. The V-berth is so big i'm making 2 kids bedrooms out of it! Now i'm stuck with the Pearson's storage/haul/mooring costs for another year, and the loss i will take on it to sell it quickly. If i had just gone for the Southern Cross first i would have saved several thousand dollars and the headache of already having to sell a boat i just bought. Bigger boats are faster, safer and more stable but not that much harder to solo!
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post #19 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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The only real problem I can see happening with a SouthernCross 31 is that they have a cored-hull. If you have a problem with the hull, the repair is very expensive, unless it is caught very, very early.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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post #20 of 46 Old 02-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross31
Re-coring the deck is way easier than everyone says (i think its a way to scare people into spending $), so even one that needs work will still be way cheaper if you do it yourself.
Is this true? It seems to me that it would be a great deal of work, and if you paid someone else, it would be very expensive. Can someone else comment?
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