Beneteau vs Hunter - Page 4 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 04-06-2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 111
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
bporter is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

Denr,

You gotta watch the generalizations, especially in re: Beneteaus. If you''re going to insult my boat, please pick on her for something that''s true. Every manufacturer has a number of designs; some suck some don''t. Just ''cause someone only spent $200,000 or less on a new boat doesn''t mean it''s suited to only being a garbage scow.

I''ve asked you before where I can get me one of those picnic tables for the cockpit of my First 40.7. Seems they neglected to put ANY table in my cockpit, just some removable lockers to make space for my trimmer on Wednesday nights.

I bet if she didn''t come with a two bladed folding prop I could get her over 7.5 knots under power much more easily too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #32  
Old 04-07-2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: western Penna.
Posts: 248
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
halyardz is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

I''ve owned and chartered Benes. The First series is very good but I simply can''t justify spending top dollar on a new boat when there are so many solid boats only a few years old on the market. Our post originator said he''s done with racing. That''s fine but issues of construction, seaworthiness, and so on are still important. As such, in a match Bene wins.
You can get one helluva good, roomy boat the Admiral will "accept" for that level of coin on the used market.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #33  
Old 04-07-2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 114
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
Pangaea is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

halyardz,
Very well said and right on the money. I totally agree.
I have never owned a new boat (but I''ve been on a few) Mabey thats why I don''t understand this practice.
To me, buying a boat is all about getting the most boat for the least money


Dennis


P.S. A friend of mine has an absolutely gourgous Saber 38 Mk. 1 for sale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #34  
Old 04-07-2002
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
saw-bones is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

Interesting discussion. I have owned a Hunter and quite frankly, I realized that I made a mistake buying it shortly afterwards. I think that they are better than they used to be, but these boats leave the factory with blatant flaws - quality control does not seem to be an issue.
Recently, I chartered a Beneteau 473 in the BVI''s and sailed circles around a Hunter 460 that was chartered by our friends. The side-by-side comparison of the two boats showed there to be no comparison. The Beneteau looked fabulous next to the Hunter 460. The fit and finish was excellent, the systems operated very well. The Beneteau by far outsailed the Hunter. I just ordered a Beneteau 473.
When comparing this to the "Premium" models, I believe that the differences are ever shrinking. The Tartan 4600, for example, is a beautiful boat. Rigging is comparable. Sail area is equal to the B473. Ballast - roughly 8500lbs for each. Displ: 28 to 29k for the Tartan and 24k for the Beneteau. LOA is the same. Beam is the same. The overall floor plan is almost identical. Where is the big difference? Money, for sure. The Tartan has some awesome furniture, but the Beneteau is certainly acceptable. Performance? Maybe. Is one more likely to survive an offshore Gale than another? I don''t know but I''m sure a lot would depend on the experience and skill of the captain and crew. Most of us will hopefully never get the chance to find out. I would expect resale to be a big difference, but if you took the balance between the cost of the Tartan and the cost of the Beneteau and invested it very conservatively over say 15 years, I am absolutely sure that the Beneteau buyer would come out on top. A base mode Tartan 4600 costs approx $450k and a similarly outfitted B 473 is roughly $250k. Can someone tell me what you''re getting witht he Tartan that is worth almost $200k? You could probably buy the Tartan 2017 model with your investment profit. Neither of these boats is an investment - both are expensive holes in the water that you pour money into. Both will depreciate. Again, the big difference that I see is that you are paying a lot of money for old world style carpentry and finish work. SB
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #35  
Old 04-07-2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 353
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
gershel is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

Saw-Bones, great reply. The original question was on Beneteus & Hunters, and all the answers were on Tartans,Sabres & Hinkleys. I suppose if money were no object,no one would be asking about Beneteaus, Hunters & Catalinas. Ya think?
Marc
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #36  
Old 04-07-2002
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CANDJ3 is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

My wife and I live aboard a Beneteau Oceanis 370. Originally, I would not have bought a Beneteau to live on. I was only looking for older Tartan 37s, Morgan 38s, etc... However, when I looked at the Beneteau, there was a lot that made me think twice. The boat was newer. It had a lot more room. I can actually get to and work on the engine, transmission, etc... Almost every piece of working gear on my boat is very accessible. It has been a good live aboard boat and sails well.

I dont claim to be the worlds best sailor, but I have been sailing for 5 years on a number of different boats. The Beneteau sails very well on inland waters, but I must admit she can pound in a seaway in the right conditions. However, I am tall and can appreciate the legroom in the v-berth that is part of the reason she pounds. At first I didnt like the furling mainsail, but I have gotten used to it and am starting to like it. It has never jammed on me when I am furling it in.

I originally was concerned about the lighter displacement, but we havent seen much difference in sailing even with all our stuff aboard. We do try to keep the boat as light as possible, but doesnt anyone who is trying to keep their sailing performance up?

All in all, we are happy with our choice and would move up to another Beneteau. We like the new 393, but I just cannot see me buying a new boat unless it will be the last one.

Chris
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #37  
Old 04-07-2002
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,665
Thanks: 5
Thanked 103 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Beneteau vs Hunter

I don''t pretend that I have an answer explaining why a Tartan is worth $200K (actually I thought that the actual difference for a similarly equipped Tartan 460 was just over $100K) more that a similar size Beneteau 473 but I can centainly explain some of the difference. I do want to say that I am actually a fan of the Beneteau 473. I think these are a tremedous amount of boat for the money and certainly represent a major step forward for Beneteau''s ''number series''. I would take one that had a normal mainsail (i.e. you could not get me to go offshore with a in mast furling mainsail on a bet) offshore with no more trepidation than with most good quality cruisers.

BUT there are big differences between the Tartan and the Beneteau. To start with the Tartan uses an injected and vacuumed epoxy resin intead of laid up polyester on the Beneteau. Epoxy is substanially more expensive but results in an extremely tougher laminate. Epoxy reduces the likelihood of blisters to less than zero and increases strenght, impact resistance and fatique resistance greatly over normal polyester resins used in the Beneteau.

Tartans bulkheads and frames are hand glassed into place while the boats are in the mold resulting is a very stiff structure and one that is likely to last a very long time. glassing while in the mold means less distortion and potentially stronger connection because the contact area is larger and defects can be observed and worked out. Beneteau uses what they call a space age adhesive that is supposedly stronger than the fiberglass it is adhered to and will delaminate the fiberglass before letting go of its adhesion. The problem here is the small contact area of the adhesive limits the area absorbing the loads to a smaller skin area and so is more likely to be a problem over time. This opaque adhesive cannot be tested observed for holidays and poor coverage during layup like a glassed in component. Similarly Beneteau glues in its liner/ internal framing system. Again this has less stength and resiliency in an impact as well as being extremely difficult to repair in an extreme incident.

Beneteaus decks are glued on with the glue serving as the primary bond and any bolting is solely for assembly alignment. Again this has become a very normal industry approach to installing a deck and with modern adhesives it does produce a strong joint. Tartan uses a bolted and adhered deck joint with frequent bolts and aluminum backing plates. This results in a potentially more impact resiliant joint and one that is easier to repair and less likely to leak over time.

Tartan''s hull uses a high density closed cell foam coring which is vacuum bagged into place. That means an extremely strong and extremely durable way to build a lighter weight boat. Beneteau only cores their decks and they use balsa core which is much cheaper and more likely to succumb to deck rot. Tartan also used balsa core decks but they core and fill each fastening point with epoxy. Beneteau does not.

Then there are little things. I haven''t specifically done this on the 473 and the Tartan 4600 but if you open the cabin sole access port and look at the plywood that is used, the Beneteau has noticably thinner top veneers than the Tartan (I have not done this in a couple years but last time I looked this was the case.) That thicker top veneer means that you can refinish the deck on a Tartan for many years to come but are less likely to be able to maintain the Beneteau deck at some point and are more likely to have to replace a deck panel at some point due to the simple damage that occurs putting the deck piece in or taking it out.

Tartan 4600 use cast lead keels. Beneteau 473''s use cast iron. Cast lead offers the ability to absorb shocks of hard groundings without transmitting as much of the shocks into the structure and so are less likely to damage internal structure in a hard grounding. All other things being equal, the higher density of lead means greater ballast stability. That means a more comfortable motion and the ability to carry more sail. That means reefing later and also might mean the difference in being able to claw off a lee shore.

There are a whole lot of little details as well. When you look at the 473 casework, the doors are plywood with an applied trim. Its a little clunky to my eye and the plywood edges will break down over time. The Tartan cabinets use a plywood door as well but at least the last time I looked they had flush hardwood edges which protect the plywood edge and permit the door to be shaved if it swells over time. Beneteau uses interior hardware that looks virtually identical to the hardware on Tartan but from experience I can tell you that in the past, and I assume its still the case, the Beneteau versions had potmetal and ferrous components and the Tartan versions were non-ferrous. Even the details of the Tartan interior seems to be a little more complete.

Please don''t get me wrong here, I am not saying that the 473 is a bad boat. I really like the 473. I have had the chance to watch one sailing on a very gusty day and was quite impressed. Earlier this winter I had gone out to try to get a sense of how my boat would behave on a day predicted to winds into the mid-20 knot range. As it turned out the normal winds were in the high teens but there were very sudden gusts into the mid- to high 20''s. In cold air this feels like a lot more wind than the wind speeds would suggest. It was really very challenging sailing. In the whole afternoon of sailing I saw maybe 5 other boats underway and one was a Beneteau 473. Except for making gobs of leeway, the 473 was sailing quite well, looked balanced and under control, and was moving quite well through the short chop that had kicked up. At one point, when the two boats were quite close, we both were hit with a strong gust (probably in the high 20''s or low 30''s) and I was very impressed with the 473''s ability to take the hit and not round up out of control.

So, with all of that said, I am not sure that a Tartan 3600 is worth $200K (or even $100 K) more than the Beneteau 473. It really depends on how you intend to use your boat, how picky you are about little details, and how much you are willing to (or can afford to) spend for a better constructed boat. No matter how much or how little you have to spend there will almost always be a better built boat or a not as well built than the one you ultimately buy. We each set our own budget and our standards and hopefully that will be all the boat that we will need to be happy and comfortable.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #38  
Old 04-08-2002
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
saw-bones is on a distinguished road
Beneteau vs Hunter

Wow! Very informative answer. Thank you for the response - I learned a great deal from that. I am really up in the air about the main sail furling vs a fully battened stack pack main. My current boat has main sail furling, and while you do lose a bit in the performance category, it is so easy to reef at an infinite number of points, that it''s hard to say goodbye to that. Have you sailed anything with main furling? Sorry we''re getting off the point of this thread. MS
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #39  
Old 04-08-2002
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,665
Thanks: 5
Thanked 103 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Beneteau vs Hunter

I haven''t spent any real ''quality'' time on boats with in-mast furling but I have seen a lot of them underway. I''ve had the chance to watch two sisterships, one with in mast furling and one without, which gave me a pretty fair sense of the relative behavior in a breeze. I have talked to sailmakers who have consistently confirmed that in-mast furling shortens the life of the sail (especially if the sail is used in the partially furled condition). They have also confirmed my observation that if really needed in a blow, the leech creeps toward the foot and so the sail ends up with a powered up shape just when you need it bladed out.
But the real deal killer for me is discussions that I had with friends who are delivery skippers who tell stories of how well in mast furling works until it doesn''t. Once it jams, which seems to be a pretty regular occurance in high winds you have a non-repairable mess to deal with. These brushes with disaster with in-mast furling in extreme conditions have convinced me that they do not belong on any boat that might get ever caught in a blow. I''m not taking about offshore, I mean ever. When they jamb as they seem to inevitably do in heavy conditions you''re stuck. You can''t reef, you can''t tension the luff, you can''t drop the sail, all you can do as one fellow discribed is cut away the sail and hope your motor runs long enough to get you home.

Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #40  
Old 08-13-2009
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ocnkids is on a distinguished road
hunter vs ben

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEC View Post
Thanks for everyone''s reply. To answer a couple of questions that were asked, price is DEFINITELY a consideration. Also, these are both new boats and range, completely fitted, in the $265-275 range. Space/layout are also a definite concern because if the sopuse is not happy, it will not get much time away from the dock. I filled my racing need in the 70''s, I now strictly cruise.
ha! that is so true! I am the wife of a captain/pirate! Actually, my husband is a 777 airline pilot and we have been Hunter owners of various sizes.
Even though we admire the Jeanneaus, beneteaus, Swans, Islanders, etc... the newer 42 Hunter center cockpit gives us the most cruising fun time!
P.S. Our boat plays in San Diego and Catalina. It's perfect.
And i used to race as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Club Beneteau Florida Invitation Jeffrey123 Gear & Maintenance 0 09-11-2004 01:42 PM
Beneteau Club FLorida Invitation Jeffrey123 General Discussion (sailing related) 0 09-11-2004 01:40 PM
A new catalina 36? paul-e Boat Review and Purchase Forum 32 09-21-2001 06:26 PM
"Benehuntalina" Hunter 34?????? JeffH Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 08-15-2001 07:55 PM
Hunter vs. Beneteau PASailor Boat Review and Purchase Forum 10 11-12-2000 08:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.