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First Boat-31' Southern Cross or 27' Hunter

13K views 51 replies 16 participants last post by  Valiente 
#1 ·
I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated.
 
#3 ·
Do you want to sail or do you want to work on a boat?

Forget (for a little while) about the differences between the two boats (and there are lots!). If you want to start sailing now, buy the Hunter, do what you have to do, and START SAILING.

If you decide to buy the SC, make a list of what needs to be done to make it ready for sailing, double the cost, triple the time, and go for it!

After you have sailed for a year or so you will have a much better idea of what kind of boat you want. Maybe the Hunter will be it, maybe not. Either way, since you can get the boat for next to nothing it won't cost much.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#5 ·
as different as a chevy nova and a dodge one ton pickup.

when you say "next to nothing" theres a reason why. typically the cost to make them seaworthy exceeds the marketable value, (even if you do ALL of the work yourself)

if you could, rip off a sheet with what the obvious issues are, we'll be sure to shoot down your dreams...
just kidding, there isn't a one of us here that doesn't want other people to share our joy and passion. Leave the cuban out of this (inside joke)
 
#6 ·
Differences between Southern Cross and Hunter 27.

Here are some ripped off remarks on the Southern Cross:

The Southern Cross 31 is a double ended full keel cutter capable of extended offshore passages. Designed by Thomas Gillmer & built & factory finished with options in Rhode Island by C.E. Ryder. This model is well known for quality construction, outstanding offshore capabilities. She is the perfect choice for a cruising couple on a budget searching for a blue water yacht that can take them anywhere.....

The Hunter is a 'coastal cruiser' meaning that it designed for day sails, weekend trips, or longer, but not more than a fwe hours from safe harbor. The Hunter will be easier to sail and more responsive due to being a sloop (one head sail) instead of a cutter (two head sails) and having a fin keel instead of a full keel.

As previously written, think of the Hunter as the Chevy Nova - good for basic transportation. Nothing fancy, good for running to the grocery store. Not real strong. The SC is the heavy duty pick up. Capable, strong, powerful, but not so good for short trips.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#7 ·
If you want to dink around the coast, go for the Hunter. I wouldn't, because there are better coastal boats for quality and seaworthiness in my mind. But if it's a matter of getting off the dock and learning to sail, it's adequate.

If you want a boat you can grow into, however, pick the Southern Cross. It won't go as fast as the Hunter in club racing, but after club racing gets boring, you could transit the Atlantic in it. A light-air champ it isn't, admittedly, but if you ever ride in a Hunter in a squall and ride in an SC, you'll appreciate the difference.



I suspect that if you get the Hunter as a first boat, you'll go to a Catalina and then to a Beneteau. If you got the SC, you might go to a Pacific Seacraft and then, if you got rich, to a nice big J/Boat. It's a sort of philosophy of sailing idea, I guess.

The last thing is that a beat-up SC is probably worth fixing up, because it will always find a buyer (unless survey says it's truly, deeply compromised as opposed to merely neglected/dirty/crusty), whereas a Hunter 27 is a "throwaway" to anyone beyond the weekend inshore daysailer...and it's a little small for even that these days.
 
#8 ·
I say get the ocean boat, the SC. Then when you're coastal sailing and a storm hits, you have the option of heading offshore, away from the dangers of land. With the Hunter you have only one choice, head for shelter and hope the harbor entrance isn't too dangerous by the time you arrive , or it's pitch black.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Cheap boats are expensive...

gentryd said:
I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated.
GentryD,
Many if not most Southern Cross's were sold as kits, where the quality of the result varies enormously. Most people would call the SC an "offshore" design where the boat's slowness is justified by its ability to handle tough conditions, a premise that gets some arguement. Nonetheless, the 31 rates 222 in PHRF which is quite slow for the size. You'd be much better off with a classic fin keel like a Pearson or Catalina 30 unless you feel the "offshore" design (or at least the pretension of such) is important to you.

I would think it a bad idea to buy a fix-me-upper (FMU)for a first boat, as you will be amazed at the cost and time involved in doing boat work - I believe many FMU buyers (myself included) end up upside financially - putting far more money into the boat than the resulting market value. A cheap boat can end up being very expensive...The cheapest boat to buy, is to pay a fair market price for a well-equipped, well maintained, needs-nothing boat - typically the guy selling it is taking a hosing (me for example).

Hunters in general, and old Hunters in particular, have a spotty reputation, the source of a good deal of discusssion/dispute on this board. See http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/hunter28.htm to get a feel for the reasons for the reputation. You would be better off to pay a bit more and get a Catalina.
 
#10 ·
The SC series of boats have proven themselves capable of circumnavigations. Donna Lange is in the process of completing one in her SC 28. The two boats are very different, as the other posters have said here, and I think you really need to figure out what you want to get the boat for.

The Southern Cross 31 is a full-keel bluewater boat. It is going to be far heavier than the Hunter, and probably far slower, given the same conditions. However, in rough seas, the Southern Cross will likely be far more forgiving.

I wouldn't recommend getting a Southern Cross 31 as your first boat. Especially not one that isn't is ready-to-sail-away shape. Many new boat owners get a "fixer-upper" and get discouraged at all the work, since the boat isn't often sailable.

You also don't say what you intentions are for the boat, or what your budget is. If you don't have at least $7-10,000 set aside to fix up the Southern Cross 31, then don't even bother looking at it.

Don Casey says in his book This Old Boat, that many boat buyers generally pick the wrong boat as their first boat, and the lessons they learn from buying their first boat often mean that their second boat is one that they end up keeping for years, since they have learned what they are really looking for in a boat by then.

Older Hunters, with some exceptions, can be questionable in quality. It would help more if you said what vintage 27' Hunter you were looking at.

One other point on the Southern Cross... most of their boats had cored hulls, and if not properly maintained, run the risk of core breakdown and delamination.

If your goal is to learn more about sailing, and to have a boat you can daysail, and coastal cruise in for upto about a week at a time, then, I'd say get the Hunter. If you want to sail around the world or across an ocean, and are looking to get a boat that you can make into the perfect boat for doing so for yourself, and are willing to spend the next year or more modifying it and restoring it...then get the Southern Cross 31.

As a general rule, with used boats, it is often far more economical to buy one that is in sailable shape than to buy a comparable boat that is not and refurbish it. The price difference is often just a small fraction of what the refitting or repairing would cost.
 
#11 ·
A 31 foot sailboat in good condition costs a minimum of $50,000.00 You can pay it several ways..all upfront when you buy a boat in decent condition, half and half buying something that is okay but needs work, or nothing at the front end and spending the other $47,500.00 over the following twelve months. But sooner or later - you are going to spend it. So if you don't have 50K to spend over the next twelve months, you can't afford the Southern Cross.

Also, I am honestly not trying to offend you, but if you are at a level of experience where you are not aware of the differences between the Hunter anad the Southern Cross, then you are not ready for one.

There is a lavyer of balsa between the inner and outer fibreglass skins of the boat. If it is cheap, it is likely that there is a problem there, and unless you've beeen working on boats for a while, you don't have the expertise to repair it properly.

Get the Hunter - have a great time, learn to sail and run aground a few times. If you maintain it and even upgrade it a little you will always be able to sell it for what you paid for it.
 
#12 ·
The Hunter is 1984, cabin, deck and hull pretty good shape but does need bottom job. Also needs front hatch. Has running Renault 8 Hp deisel and comes with 3 sails. Can pick up for $1500.00, can probably pick up SC around same price but you're right, alot of time and money.
 
#13 ·
The SC31 must be in really rotten shape. Ones in good condition list for about $30,000, and sell for probably about $22-26,000, depending on their condition and what equipment is on them.

A mid-1980s Hunter is probably a boat I'd want to avoid. That was the time period that had gained Hunter much of its reputation for making really flimsy and shoddy boats. Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues.
 
#14 ·
sailingdog said:
Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues.
A friend of mine got a late '70s Pearson 30 in good shape for $10K last season and shipped it from Conn. to Toronto. He's got fresh sails and a few odds and ends, put in a new head (the wife was squeamish) and spent about $3000 in total getting it right.

So it *can* be done...but you've got to be really picky. As his last boat was a late '60s 24 foot Shark, he's over the moon with all that wide open space and 5' 10" headroom:D
 
#15 ·
Valiente said:
A friend of mine got a late '70s Pearson 30 in good shape for $10K last season and shipped it from Conn. to Toronto. He's got fresh sails and a few odds and ends, put in a new head (the wife was squeamish) and spent about $3000 in total getting it right.

So it *can* be done...but you've got to be really picky. As his last boat was a late '60s 24 foot Shark, he's over the moon with all that wide open space and 5' 10" headroom:D
It happens, but not too commonly...and this guy is looking at $1500 if I read his post right... when was the last time you saw a 27'+ boat that was in decent shape for less than $10,000???
 
#16 ·
$1500.00 is read right, basically paying past due slip fees, guy just wants out of it. My inquiry was on SC boats as there's not alot out there, Said I was new to sailing, not to boating. Been on saltwater boats all my life and have totally redone 2 fiberglass boats. Don't know sailboats, but do know boats. Thought I'd square that up as some responses lead to the perception that I'm ignorant to boating altogether. I do appreciate all the responses, they have been most helpful
 
#17 ·
Ahhhh - so if you're not a boating newbie then we don't have to be qute so nice to you ;) We try to be on our best behaviour with total landlubbers :) :) :) :)

...anyway...a Southern Cross has a cored hull, which is a bad, bad thing in a neglected boat. They were sold (mostly as unfinished shells) to people who wanted Valiants but couldn't afford them.

Because they were owner-finished inside, you are almost guaranteed that there are holes through the skin and into the core, and that the core is wet - hence rotten in places. Besides, they are fat, slow and ugly and sometimes the kindest thing to do to a boat is just let it sink as nature intended...
 
#18 · (Edited)
Sailormann-

The coring in the hull of the Southern Cross boats isn't balsa, IIRC, it is cored with Airex, which was IIRC a PVC-based foam. I believe the decks were cored with end-grain balsa, rather than the Airex material.

Also, many of the Southern Crosses may have been owner finished, but some were factory finished.

They may be slow, but they're very solid boats, if they were properly maintained, and are reasonably priced for a bluewater capable boat. Pat Henry circumnavigated in her SC31, and Donna Lange is about to finish a circumnavigation in an SC28. Not too many other boats can compete for the price, size and value.

One major advantage the Southern Cross has as a cruising boat is that the cabin temperature tends to be a bit easier to control thanks to the cored hull and deck. Also, it tends not to have the condensation problems in cooler weather than a solid fiberglass boat will have.

The Elizabethan 31 and the Hallberg-Rassy Monsun are two others that are about the same size and value, and with about the same capabilities.


 
#19 ·
Does anybody know if there's a way to find out if the hull was factory finished or kit by the hull #. I'm really thinking now I should get them both. Dry dock the SC for a couple of years and take my time with her, and learn the sailing ropes on the Hunter until I finish the SC
 
#20 ·
I''m sort of a newbie but for the money if you can't make up your mind and have the room get them both. Sail the Hunter while you spet the next few years tinkering with the SC. Just don't try to make them both bristol. spend the money and time on the SC and wear what liitle there is of the hunter out while you sail it. But like i said i am a newbie

P-27
 
#24 ·
Don't waste your time with the hunter IF you want to end up with the SC....I'm still trying to sell my Pearson 26 after buying it only 10months ago, after deliberating over the same process. There is no comparison between the 2 boats. The SC feels like a big ship compared to the Pearson. The difference in size is huge between the 2 boats. The SC has 6'3 headroom, I can't even stand up in the Pearson. I just cut the cabintop off of the SC to re-core it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you you can't do it on your own..and the materials are pretty cheap! Have the hull thoroughly checked for delamination though! I would really sit down and check out the 2 boats....you'll see the difference.
 
#26 ·
Damn, I'm so confused and its not even my thread! Everyone has good points.:)
Personally, I would buy the SC and fix it. You can buy a dinghy in perfect condition with a trailer for $1500 and sail the heck out of it until the SC is ready. In the end you will be much happier with the SC. Its just a better boat, plain and simple.
 
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