Purchase strategy advice - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-25-2007
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,873
Thanks: 2
Thanked 101 Times in 98 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
There's something else that probably should be said about unfinished "home built" boats.

If the builder really knew about boats and boat work before they began--the boat would probably have been finished. Yes, each case will be different and there will be Real Good Reasons for not finishing. Personal, medical, boss ran off and embezzled the funds, Enron, whatever. But by and large, I think most of the "unfinished" boats and hulls we've all heard of, are the result of someone biting off more than they could chew, and running out of time or money--after investing a lot of it (so they want more than it is worth) and often doing things in a way "only a mother could love".

I'm not saying it can' t be a bargain, only to proceed very cautiously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-25-2007
Here .. Pull this
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,031
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Sailormann will become famous soon enough
I agree with Sailhog here. You have identified a brand of boat that appeals to you. You want to make an offer but are not sure what the boat is worth - to you or to the owner.

Start by finding out how many of these boats are on the market, and what they are selling for. Is your boat in that range ? If not why not ? Next you need to determine what level of skill the person who "finished" the boat had. Is this a case of someone throwing in some pieces of residential grade marine plywood and painting it prety or is there beautiful joinery ? Pictures can tell you some of this, but the best thing you can do is to get a surveyor to talk to the person who fit the interior. They can tell a lot by asking a few questions.

If you are buying the boat to sail offshore, the interior needs to have been constructed in a way that will allow you easy access to to the hull, in order to repair, replace and install things. If it wasn't, then you have the choice of going to sea and hoping nothing ever goes wrong (highly unlikely) or ripping lots of things out and starting over.

It would be a very good idea to do some serious research on the net reading articles about and by people who are actually cruising offshore. What boats are they sailing ? If the brand that you are looking at is not mentioned occasionally, then this may be an indicator that it is not a good offshore boat, and vice-versa.

Remember that if you are buying a home-built or a kit boat, the market value of those boats is considerably less than factory-finished units. It will be when you buy it and it will be when you sell it. So are you going to hold on to the boat for a long time, or are you planning on selling it in five years ? If it's the latter, then think long and hard about how much money you are going to sink into it because you will not be able to recoup all of it. A general rule of thumb is that if you buy a boat in today's market, and maintain it nicely, upgrading things that need to be taken care of, you should get back your initial purchase price - but likely not your purchase price plus improvements.

You were asking specifically about purchase strategy...well you are here and the boat is there. The thing you need to find is a neutral third party to assess the boat. I would suggest finding out who the most reputable boat yard in the area is, and asking them to recommend a surveyor. Call the surveyor and arrange for him to interview the owner/finisher of the boat, inspect it and then give you a report on his findings.

It is going to cost you money, regardless of what you do. Boats are like that. Good luck and please update here with your progress.

Last edited by Sailormann; 03-25-2007 at 07:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-25-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I would amend what sailormann said with, "if you buy a used boat in today's market, and maintain it nicely, upgrading... " Generally, anyone buying a new boat is going to take a huge depreciation hit on the initial purchase price.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-25-2007
Here .. Pull this
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,031
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Sailormann will become famous soon enough
Yes - I did mean used - a new boat is a different kettle of fish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-25-2007
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
If you can't afford to visit the boat..you can't afford the boat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-25-2007
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,929
Thanks: 5
Thanked 80 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Hi,
Really there is no reason for you not to negotiate a price range at least with the broker prior to viewing. Yes it is normally done the other way but rules are made to be broken. As an example I fell in love with an advert for a boat some 1000 miles from where we live but the price was defintely too high. We spoke with the broker and ended up with an agreed price range subject to the inspection. All this way before survey time. As it turned out the advert was painting a rosy picture of the boat that was not backed up in real life. That it probably my main point. You cannot realistically judge a boat from an advert so don't get your hopes up. Nonetheless try negotiating the price beforehand and see how you go. Remember that brokers are between a rock and hard place. On the one hand they want the sale at any price, on the other they want to maximise their commssion.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 03-30-2007
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arnhem, The Netherlands
Posts: 22
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
SvenHee is on a distinguished road
It is obvious you will need to see the boat before you buy.

In cases like this I allways ask myself if I'm prepaired to walk away empty handed. If not, I have to be prepaired to pay the asking price. (off course I will still negotiate).

If you realise that you are not prepaired to walk away empty handed and not prepaired to pay the asking price, the price is to high for you and needs to come down before you come and see the boat.

Of course you still run the risk of the price going up again as soon as you see it (nasty broker or owner, feel free to go balistic) so you still have to be prepaired to walk away.

You can get the best deals if you are able to keep your emotions under control and only visit and buy if it is sensible.

If you can not get a good deal now, be patient and keep looking. It is worth it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 03-30-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wherever
Posts: 5,264
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about
I have talked to people who hired a surveyor to take a 'first look' at the boat before commiting time, effort & money to see the boat for themselves.
They did not pay for a full survey, just a brief inspection that was a fraction of a survey price.
So the first chore in this method is to find a good local surveyor that knows sailboats.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 03-30-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,042
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by xort
I have talked to people who hired a surveyor to take a 'first look' at the boat before commiting time, effort & money to see the boat for themselves.
They did not pay for a full survey, just a brief inspection that was a fraction of a survey price.
So the first chore in this method is to find a good local surveyor that knows sailboats.
In the past I have used "internet aquaintences" as a first set of eyes looking over distant airplanes I was considering. I've also done the same for others.

By having a local person that was knowledgeable about airplanes take a look and perhaps send photos of the warts the seller chose not to publish, I avoided trips to look at several aircraft that "looked good on paper".

Perhaps in this case you could find someone nearby the boat that could take a look for you to see if paying a surveyor is worth it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 03-30-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
There is an old saying...
"Only gamble as much money as you are willing to lose."

While getting a survey is a wonderful idea, there is no way on Gods green earth I'd lay out my cash for something that I've not crawled all over.. myself! Would you buy a home you haven't seen, a car you haven't driven?

There are just too many variables. From build quality to systems, to esthetics, to sailabiliity, to yadda, yadda, yadda.

Spend the dough and see it for yourself. If you have trouble justifying that expense, you can't afford the boat anyway.

The expense of 3k to ship it to where will seem like chump change if it gets there and its something that you just can't stand.

The alternative is buying it, shipping it, launching it, then, walk across the deck and mutter repeatedly "What the hell did I get myself into, and how do I get myself out of it."

Or, I could be an ass and full of crap and it could be the best thing for you on the face of the earth.
__________________
We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs

Last edited by cardiacpaul; 03-30-2007 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Laptops jughandle General Discussion (sailing related) 31 01-25-2007 05:16 PM
Boat buying advice for 35''+ range jmshack Boat Review and Purchase Forum 36 12-31-2006 12:53 PM
looking for advice on a boat purchase rireefguy General Discussion (sailing related) 8 07-06-2006 05:18 PM
Newbie Looking for fiberglass advice natew Gear & Maintenance 20 06-20-2006 07:59 PM
Mackinac Race Strategy Dave Gerber Racing Articles 0 07-18-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:54 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.