overpriced

[xort]

I know every deal is different for sure but I'm hoping for a bit of info on what the 'usual' deal is...
Boat US gave me a value check on a particular production boat I'm interested in. They said the average sale price is $162,000 for a 2000. On yachtworld, the prices range from 180,000 to over $225,000. 225 is about 30% higher. I know there might be some extra stuff on board but that can't account for more than about $10,000 of added value.
The average listing of these boats is lets say about $200,000 so that's a full 20% over the average sale price by Boat US's research.
Is 20% to 30% a normal starting point from brokers?
These numbers are for a 1998 to 2000 model year boat and there are about a dozen for sale in the US. Not one is close to the 'average' selling price of $162,000. And don't forget that 'average' means there have been lower priced sales. The Boat US people implied to me that they threw out very high & very low prices in their market survey but would not get specific.

[Cruisingdad]

Xort,

Are you working with a broker? THey should be able to pull soldboats off of yachtworld and give you a more realistic view. In THEORY, assuming no one lies, the brokers on YW are supposed to list the sold price of the boats (which is access only they have). If you know a surveyor, you can ask him too (as he has access to this info).

I have always heard the 10% less than asking price... but it really depends on the boat, honestly. I don't guess there is a big deal about paying more for a boat if it has a bunch of stuff you would need - versus buying a cheaper one and having to do it all retail? In other words, make sure you are comparing apples to apples... which is difficult.

Did that help??

- CD

[XTR]

How long have you been watching YW? Look at the ones that list and sell.

I've been watching for a little over a year now, I've noticed that boats that list for about 30% less sell.

If you're looking at the HunterBenelinas's there are a lot of them out there. There is nothing wrong with offereing what you want to pay, worst that can happen is they say Yes. If they say no there are plenty more out there.

Someone once told me that if you're not embarrassed by your first offer you're offering too much. I guess it depends on how much you like to haggle.

edit: Depending on the financing they have on a 2000 some of those prices may reflect what they still owe unless it's coming out of a charter program (in which case it's probably paid for)

[camaraderie]

If you are looking at a mass produced boat of recent vintage then it makes little sense to pay at the top of the market (not asking price...buying price) unless there is unusual equipment that would make that price justifiable...boom furler/generator etc. ...since you will be able to find similarly kept and equipped boats from others at better prices.
Where it gets tougher is in small production and custom boats where they are prized and just a few sales of poorly kept boats can influence the "average price" without actually de-valuing the ones people really want to own. Some production boats that are well kept and "ready to go" cruising can easily command a premium over less well equipped brethren...examples would include Island Packets and Calibers...outfitted with big battery banks, watermakers, davits & Ribs, generators or solar/wind, life rafts, SSB/pactors dual anchor systems w/ good tackle and windlass etc. etc. ...so don't expect to get that stuff for free. It is not unusual to find a well equipped 2 year old boat priced higher than a new one.
It's a cliche...but ultimately you have to get out there and LOOK at some boats. See just what you REALLY get for 150K vs. 200K in the same make and model and make a decision that makes sense for you. Trying to do it from pictures on the internet just does not work. If based on the 150K boat you think the 200K boat is overpriced...make an offer that reflects this.

[Sailormann]

I think that the brokers tend to put an asking price about 20 to 25% higher than they expect to sell for. And you have to remember that this is prime boat-buying season right now - things get cheaper after June (around here anyway)...the best deals seem to happen in September and October - just before the owner has to lay out the money for winter storage.

[xort]

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad

Xort,
I have always heard the 10% less than asking price... but it really depends on the boat, honestly. I don't guess there is a big deal about paying more for a boat if it has a bunch of stuff you would need - versus buying a cheaper one and having to do it all retail? In other words, make sure you are comparing apples to apples... which is difficult.

Did that help??

- CD

I've heard the 10% rule too, that's why I'm suprised at the differences. IF the Boat US 'average' is stripped down, how much more is a used dink, motor, davits, SSB, upgraded electronics worth? Maybe $10,000? But these boats are priced $40,000 to $60,000 over and don't have all these upgrades.
One thing I suspect is sellers that aren't really sellers. If I'm stupid enough to pay 30% over then they'll sell but otherwise they'll just hang on.
I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger just yet so I'm not working with a broker. I have one in mind when I'm really ready but I don't want to burn him out for a year fooling around kicking tires.

Thanks

[camaraderie]

xort...I think some people hope their boat is worth more than it is. This tends to be true for more recent listings on yacht-world. Also...the area of the country affects pricing and Euro based boats are WAY overriced now due to the dollars weakness...but I assume you are not looking over there.
I would put the possible value of good condition fully cruise equipped vs. standard boat more on the order of 20-30K for a 40ft.+ boat depending on exactly what was added on:
Generator...10-15K
Watermaker...3K+
Life raft in Cannister mount...$3k
In boom furling...15-25K
Rib+Motor+Davits...$5K
SSB full rig w/ Pactor...4-5K
AGM Battery Bank w. Monitor...$2K
Inverter/Charger....$2k
Upgraded Alternator/Regulator...$500
Engine Spares Kit....$2K
Wind/Solar Install...$3-4K
Substantial Autopilot...$4-5K
Cokpit Dodger/Enclosure/Bimini...$3-4K
Dual anchor platform/cruising hooks & rode...$2-3K
Heavy Duty Windlass...$2-3K
Epirb $1k

...and more.

All depends on how much stuff the PO has added on.

[Gulfcoastbreeze]

Take a look at all the boats on the market. I'd guess your figure of 162k would buy said boat. There's always someone getting divorced, promoted, fired, etc. who needs to sell, and those prices set the market.

GCB

[Cruisingdad]

You know, I think this is related and may be of some interest to Xort: I got a first yesterday or the day before: Contacted by a broker to buy my boat.

It is not for sale, but he pulled my name off the CG docs. I found that interseting and wonder if the market may be tightening???? Anyone else getting these? Would that explain the increase in prices? I know we just came out of a "used boat slump". I contacted a broker friend of mine, and he said that was because most of the stuff on the market right now was either junk or way over pirced.

I wonder f that explains what Xort might be seeing?

Thoughts?

- CD

[PBzeer]

Last year, when I first started shopping with intent to buy, I looked at a couple of other boats. On one, the offer would have been 28K for a 35k asking, and that was before the survey (the 28K was the selling brokers advice!). On the other, they knocked 10K off before we even started, from a 70K boat.

Given what I know now, I should have lowered my offer on Aria to 25K on a 35K asking, instead of 30K. (Experience is such a harsh teacher sometimes)