Different take on the first boat

[Insails]

Ok..I have still not bought my boat..I am still concidering the Alberg 30..
My choice has always been to cruise..I wont be in any hurry to go anywhere..
I still plan on day sailing by myself and taking short cruises along the gulf for 3 days a week when my wife and I are both off...
I also plan to take atleast two 2 week cruises a year...
I still want a boat for day sailing and for blue water..
I learned to sail on a 67 foot schooner that weighed 67 tons..but it took 4 to sail her and small craft warnings...LOL
So after two cruises from The Gulf coast to Newfoundland blue water is in my blood..
will I settle for less boat than I want?...I doupt it..
Will I get more boat than I need? ..I doupt it..
I do want to sail but I also know what I want to sail on..
Even though I learned on a wheel and a large Schooner, I still want a sloop and I don't care if she has a tiller or a wheel)...I just want to cruise

[sailingdog]

Drynoc-

BTW, IIRC there are some boats that have running backstays don't have any other support for the mast, and rely on the running backs to help keep the mast where it belongs.


Insails-

While the Alberg 30 is one of my favorite monohulls, there are plenty of decent boats that can do what you're looking for, which have been mentioned on dozens of threads previously, and several of which Cam and I have posted above.

[Insails]

Thanks sailingdog,and I am in no hurry and have many options as it seems to be a buyers market...I like alberg 30s, I like the Cape dory 27 and 28 footers..I agree many boats will fit my needs if rigged right even the Catalina 27...I also like some of the older islanders and Pearsons..I try to read more everyday and have about memorized the boat reviews here..I just want to thank all for their imput and after I find my boat ,I will need you guys even more because you all have the maintnance skills I lack...Great to have guys like you,cam,paul,CD,Gui and so many more..I look forward to future imput from you all because I know it will be sound advise you can't put a dollar tag on

[hellosailor]

drynoc-
In addition to what sailingdog said, I would caution you that most real racing boats are "purpose built" meaning they are built for a specific purpose, including a specific range of wind and sea conditions. I once had the pleasure to visit Drum New Zealand in the US and when I asked if they had sailed it over, the crew laughed and said I had to be kidding--it could never take offshore weather, the rigging would snap like kindling.
Similarly, you'll find that most race boats built with running backstays are simply not designed to keep the rigging up without them. In light to moderate winds, or with reefed sails, you may be fine. But unless you have a rigger go over the entire rig (shrouds, stays, spreaders) you may find the whole thing coming down suddenly one day.
You're right, you don't have to use all the fancy stuff, vangs and tweaks and cunninghams and all the trim lines. But the rigging is NOT designed to hold up the mast without those backstays. For short-handing, you can often have them rigged with shock cords and run back to the helm so they are easier to short-hand. Again, a rigger can show you how to set this up.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Valiente-

Preventers aren't generally rigged on racing boats, because they tend to interfere with tacking and gybing.

It was a crash gybing death during a race that convinced me to make up preventers (at least forward to the toe rail, not the more effective boom-end to bow and back arrangement) in the first place.

I mentioned it in the context of someone buying a superannuated racer to be used as a learning platform or even as a basic cruiser, and therefore not necessarily averse to safety elements that are seen as impediments while racing.

But maybe shouldn't be.

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by Valiente

It was a crash gybing death during a race that convinced me to make up preventers (at least forward to the toe rail, not the more effective boom-end to bow and back arrangement) in the first place.

I mentioned it in the context of someone buying a superannuated racer to be used as a learning platform or even as a basic cruiser, and therefore not necessarily averse to safety elements that are seen as impediments while racing.

But maybe shouldn't be.

Valiente-

A preventer being used with out proper knowledge of how to use it can be just as dangerous as not using one. If the boat gybes, and the preventer line isn't release, it can cause the boat to get "pinned down" by the mainsail. While this may not be as dangerous as an uncontrolled boom swinging across the boat, it can cause its own share of problems, including heeling the boat over enough to have crew fall off. It also requires someone to go forward to release and re-attach the preventer lines each time you gybe—not an ideal situation for novice sailors.

[Giulietta]

Some masts do not need runing backstays for stifness, just for mast shape.

The GibSea 421 that belongs to a friend had them, and he removed them..with that boat he sailed from poortugal to Cuba and back...without them.

So...on some boats it has not structural effect whatsoever, serves just as "mast bending device".

Should ask whoever made the mast if it is acceptable to move.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Valiente-

A preventer being used with out proper knowledge of how to use it can be just as dangerous as not using one. If the boat gybes, and the preventer line isn't release, it can cause the boat to get "pinned down" by the mainsail. While this may not be as dangerous as an uncontrolled boom swinging across the boat, it can cause its own share of problems, including heeling the boat over enough to have crew fall off. It also requires someone to go forward to release and re-attach the preventer lines each time you gybe—not an ideal situation for novice sailors.

That's why I have my non-standard ones rigged on both sides. It's somewhat like a boom brake or twinned vangs, I suppose, but with the cams down on deck running aft. The blue and white is starboard (they were out of green and white that day!) and the red and white is port. They can be used under tension as a replacement for the main sheet when gybing normally.

I'm aware that there are large stresses at play here and I wouldn't use this set-up above 25 knots or so, but I find it's simplified my single-handing.

[divesailor]

Having yet to purchase my first boat, (going to wait until the transfer comes in) I do already know what I am looking for and what I am going to do with it. Primarily cruising, Daysailing, weekend trips with a weeklong adventure 2-3 times a year. Fishing for fun and lots of diving. My competitive days behind me, I have little to prove and just want to enjoy the water, the sun and the serenity of the day. I have been looking at older Bristols and find that with little modification they could certainly handle what I am wanting to accomplish. Maybe I will "race" friends to the best dive Mooring or something along those lines. All that being said, comfort above and below, combined with ease of handling is primary. We are planning on going to the Offshore Sailing schools for their fast track to cruising. Then additional experience on a friends Columbia 34, until the time comes to buy our own. The KISS system is envoked heavily IMO. I don't care to have more rigging than I really need. Just want to have fun. What do you all think?

[CapnHand]

I'd love to be able to use my sailboat for diving so if you've thought it through and have a good way to do it, I'd like to know.

I never thought that a sailboat made a very good dive boat. It would probably be ok for once in a while, but not as a primary means of going diving. Gel coat damage seems inevitable from tanks and weights. The freeboard on my boat is too high. The newer designs with walk through transoms may be better.

The way I look at it, when the wind is down, I can go diving and when it's windy and rough weather for diving, I can be out on my sailboat.