Tayana 37 cutter vs. Allied Princess 36 ketch - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 15 Old 04-16-2007 Thread Starter
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thanks chris,

i am still mulling it and have to get a first-hand look at the Seabreeze, as I am still out of the country.

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post #12 of 15 Old 04-17-2007
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I own a Ty37 and used to race on an Allied 36.

Performance-wise the Ty37 will win hands down in light winds as well as rough weather. PHRF-NE 174 vs. PHRF-NE 210. I also find the Ty37 a bit more weatherly (I tack through close to 90 but with inboard sheeting ... and use the staysail under a genoa for upwind), but requires more finesse in sail shaping and setting, etc. because of the inherent complexity of balancing forestay/headstay tensions, etc. If you're not used to precise setting/shaping, a cutter will be just a "Winnebago with triangular cloth on top" ... not an 'easy' rig to sail (well).

I find the Ty37 a bit top-heavy with a slow roll period, initiallly tender to about 15+ degrees then 'solid'; slips off to the lee beyond 30deg. of heel. Very 'sea-kindly' motion (I power-puke on a 'snapper'). To me the A36 is a bit stiffer; but, with that short waterline length a bit of a 'hobbyhorse' in comparison. With a good set of light sails, feathering prop and properly faired and smooooooth hull (and bottom paint) the Ty37 is very good in light air. Full sails up (w/135 & staysail) gives you about 1150 sq. ft. aloft, although for beating she performs better to windward a bit 'shortened' or well flattened. The cockpit is small and proper for a bluewater boat; therefore not good for 'dockside entertaining'. The MkII has higher cockpit coaming, especially at the stern.

My Ty37 has a clubfooted staysail .... absolutely LOVE it. Good for shorthanding, excellent for sailshape (but needs to be vanged when off the wind.).

Definitly the Ty37 has immensely more interior volume (and more importantly **stowage**) and can carry more at 1200 #/in than the A36 at 900#/in. Ty37s are all semi-custom inside. Rarely will you ever find two the same on the inside. The interior are an intelligent design for a seaway with handholds, etc. with easy reach ... everywhere. There were some 'pullman berth' versions built ... could you imagine a pullman berth in a heavy seaway??!!! The interior work is impeccable with masterful joinery ... but do seek out one thats been varnished inside as an oil finish usually and ultimately goes 'dark as a tomb' over time ... then its a royal bitch to restore back to 'bright'. The teak is either old growth Thai or Burmese (with 'wonderful' grain).

Noone in their right mind will add weight to the ends of a sea-going boat ... so the misperception of apparent lack of stowage in the pinched stern doesnt matter. For buoyancy of the pinched stern: take a look at that FAT underwater stern 'bustle', that canoe stern is simply 'style' and most certainly has vastly more reserve buoyancy than an IOR design. Besides, there is a 'ton' of stowage elsewhere on a Ty37. I will never understand why someone would want to add **weight** inside the ends of a boat.

Expect to pay $80K-90K+ for a 'good' Ty37 ... usually direct from a current owner. Most available boats are found in FL and also Tx ... but some are usually available in the MidAtlantic. I prefer a MkII configuration ... deeper cockpit, etc., mine is a MkI. Most of Ty37s from the 80s will have a Yanmar, those older will have a Perkins.

Downsides of a Ty37 that bear investigation:
Teak decks ... especially if left unmaintained/grey
Bowsprit rot ... nuff said but easily repairable if youre handy.
Chainplate bases ... if wet will probably need total rebuilding due to crevice corrosion of the 'non-removable' chainplate attachment bolting.
Substandard OEM rigging components. Has intermediate shrouds which dont do much support and add a lot of weight aloft (change out to hi tech runners).
Bulwark leaks in older (70s) boats
A 'mixture' of fasteners: Whitworth(Imperial variant), SAE, even some god-awful metric profile.
Encapsulated keel (but internal ballast is a casting not 'scrap punchings set in concrete')
Black iron fuel tank (rots from underneath from the outside) ... usually mounted in the bow (so dont totally fill it with 100+ gallons !!!).
Wiring is 'automotive' grade ... not tinned and should be entirely replaced with tinned wiring.
Brightwork ... I use Honey Teak (hand-rubbed equal to a 'Hinckly quality' varnish job) and am going into my 7th season with only 'minor repair' of the HT - yearly maintenance is a quick coat with HT 2part clear over; I do the 'whole' boat in less than 6 hours every 2 years and lightly powerbuff the HT every intervening year.

I havent been in true stink conditions in an A36 but have been F9-10 in my Ty37 and find its a very stable platform that puts a smile on your face because of its stability ... although I'd like a finer bow to cut through the 'heavy' stuff. With a cutaway full keel with slack bilges, its like riding on steel rails as the boat essentially self steers when the sailplan is balanced.

With almost 650 built you wont have much problem locating a 'good' one ... look at a 'few' before making a decision. A 'good' or 'restored' Ty37 will hold its value very well; but, there are a LOT of 'project' Ty37s out there.

........ and you can tell Im somewhat biased toward the Ty37: better sailing in heavy & light, vastly better stowage, more interior, 'sea-kindlier', built like tank, a 'true' cutter, more value for the $$$, etc.

hope this helps.

Last edited by RichH; 04-17-2007 at 11:11 PM.
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post #13 of 15 Old 04-18-2007 Thread Starter
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Excellent information, Rich!

Really appreciate your frank and thorough assessment. As I said, I prefer the Tayana myself, but have been trying to psychologically sell myself on the bigger price-tag. I had heard about the chainplate backing problems and investigated the fix - I am sure I can do it, if necessary. Leaky-teaky decks worry me more, precisely because I have done the strip, scoop, rebed before on a smaller boat. Not fun!

But, I agree with your points. You make a lot of sense.
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post #14 of 15 Old 04-18-2007
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Leakey decks....

can be a big bummer. Leakey decks are impossible to survey correctly as the rot can be in various stages of growth, plus the thickness of the underdeck can 'fool' a so-called moisture meter. That said, many have had their decks stripped off, the rot removed and have been reglassed as a DIY project. Of note the Ty37 deck structure is made up of a core of approx. ~8"X8" softwood blocks which were intended to be isolated with polyester 'dams' surrounding/encapsulating the blocks with the intention of moisture isolation between the blocks. Good in theory but didnt work out well in practice ... and makes a horrendous job to cutout when rebuilding; but, 'can' be done by a DIYer.
Of the ~650 Ty37s out there there is only one reported to be structurally damaged due to a soft deck ... supposedly took a large boarding wave abeam and the deck split/cracked away from the doghouse joint.

Forgot to mention that prior to the early 80s most Ty37s had wooden spars.

Both the Ty37 and Allied36 have full keels ... and that means drag, and barn door rudders which require a lot of force to turn when at speed and thus require bodaceous wheel steering to overcome the generated rudder force. If you sail an Alberg30 you already know what I mean.

Personally if were doing it all over again Id probably seek out a boat with the longest *waterline length* I could afford and with a fractional rig, fin keel ......... with balanced spade rudder with TILLER just for the ability to steer with finger tips and/or to use simple and much cheaper tillerpilot.

hope this helps. :-)
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-27-2009
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Allied vs Gulfstar

Hi everyone...
curious which boat "Alberg 30" sprung for?
I'm looking at a Allied Princess or a Gulfstar 37...
Just looking for reviews on both
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